Question for Christians Who Believe in a Literal Hell. (missionaries, adventist, pagans)
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Canonicity isn't the issue. Word usage, how words were used by the ancient writers is the issue. In 4 Maccabees 10:15 the word ἀίδιον is used for the everlasting life of the pious. The writer of 4 Maccabees chose to use the word ἀίδιον to express his thought.
Dear senior citizen Mike: The clear meaning of aionios and aidios (without consulting non Canon) is clear! Aidios is the ONLY word that manifests the thought of eternal, the ONLY one.
There are actually more than two verses speaking of the Aidios One. But make zero mistake, the ONLY word for eternal in Canon is aidios and is ALWAYS in reference to the Eternal One!
"For His invisible nature, His eternal power and deity from the creation of the universe, being clearly understood in the things that have been made, they are without excuse."
Dear senior citizen Mike: The clear meaning of aionios and aidios (without consulting non-Canon) is clear! Aidios is the ONLY word that manifests the thought of eternal, the ONLY one.
There are actually more than two verses speaking of the Aidios One. But make zero mistakes, the ONLY word for eternal in Canon is aidios and is ALWAYS in reference to the Eternal One!
"For His invisible nature, His eternal power and deity from the creation of the universe, being clearly understood in the things that have been made, they are without excuse."
The illogic of pretending the pious have everlasting life given that we ALL die, pious or not, is just one of the many illogical and irrational mistakes you make, Mike. It is a promise from the one who IS everlasting life - God. It is that promise they refuse to renounce.
The writer of 4 Maccabees didn't have physical life in mind, but the everlasting life that all believers have by being in relationship with God, and which is forever.
It is the everlasting life of the pious, expressed by the word ἀίδιον, that is in view in 4 Maccabees 10:15. Not God. God gives everlasting life, but the everlasting life that God gives to the believer (pious in the verse) is expressed by the word . . . wait for it. . . ἀίδιον!!!
The writer of 4 Maccabees didn't have physical life in mind, but the everlasting life that all believers have by being in relationship with God, and which is forever.
As always, your psychic powers amaze me, Mike.
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It is the everlasting life of the pious, expressed by the word ἀίδιον, that is in view in 4 Maccabees 10:15. Not God. God gives everlasting life, but the everlasting life that God gives to the believer (pious in the verse) is expressed by the word . . . wait for it. . . ἀίδιον!!!
It is the Promise of everlasting life from God that is referenced by aidios. Aidios is used BECAUSE it refers to the everlasting life of God in the Promise. It is the PROMISE they will not renounce.
As always, your psychic powers amaze me, Mike. It is the Promise of everlasting life from God that is referenced by aidios. Aidios is used BECAUSE it refers to the everlasting life of God in the Promise. It is the PROMISE they will not renounce.
You're twisting the meaning of the writer of 4 Maccabees 10:15 to suit your purposes. You cannot base the full range of meaning of the word ἀίδιος on the two verses in the Bible in which it is used.
Furthermore, the Bible clearly uses the other word, αἰώνιος in certain contexts to refer to unending duration. What is English is expressed by the terms 'eternal' or 'everlasting'. And this is recognized by very many scholars of the Greek language, and seen by an objective reading of the pertinent verses in which it is used in that context. But that won't stop people such as yourself from denying it.
Dear senior citizen Mike: are you practicing being slow? Perhaps you should adjust your spectacles.
The clear meaning of aionios and aidios (without consulting non Canon) is clear! Aidios is the ONLY word that manifests the thought of eternal, the ONLY one.
There are actually more than two verses speaking of the Aidios One. But make zero mistake, the ONLY word for eternal in Canon is aidios and is ALWAYS in reference to the Eternal One!
"For His invisible nature, His eternal power and deity from the creation of the universe, being clearly understood in the things that have been made, they are without excuse."
"His invisible nature">>>>>
"His eternal power & Deity" =
His aidios nature......His aidios power & Deity
Mike: you need to consider a refund on your at home study of koine! Do not hesitate apply today!
You're twisting the meaning of the writer of 4 Maccabees 10:15 to suit your purposes. You cannot base the full range of meaning of the word ἀίδιος on the two verses in the Bible in which it is used.
Furthermore, the Bible clearly uses the other word, αἰώνιος in certain contexts to refer to unending duration. What is English is expressed by the terms 'eternal' or 'everlasting'. And this is recognized by very many scholars of the Greek language, and seen by an objective reading of the pertinent verses in which it is used in that context. But that won't stop people such as yourself from denying it.
The author had a philosophical agenda, which was to support his own beliefs regarding that of an immortal soul. Where the good souls are said to live forever, while the evil souls are also immortal, thus they will suffer endlessly:
"No, by the blessed death of my brothers, by the eternal (aionios) destruction of the tyrant, and by the everlasting (aidios) life of the pious, I will not renounce our noble brotherhood."
Which is very much inclusive of mixing and blending in various pagan thoughts (i.e., having an immortal soul). He also was not in agreement with the resurrection of the body, but his discourse was nothing more than an elegant delusion of grandeur which praised the supremacy of his pious reason over passion. Yet, his passion was fixed on a false belief that he and his brotherhood possessed superior qualities to that of others. A bit self-righteous like that of yourself, if you ask me.
However, you are back to using two Greek words as having virtually the same meaning in the English. Which only happens when the agenda is to give the illusion of something that is contrary to their actual meanings. In this case, he would be saying that the destruction of the tyrant was for an age (nothing about it is eternal), while the righteous live forever. So, what happens after the age-long destruction of those who were evil. Do they then not join the righteous?
Originally Posted by thrillobyte I too used to be a Christian. What forced me to give it up--apart from there being no hard evidence for the existence of a man named Yeshua ben Joseph--is that when I asked myself if I could torture my children for eternity for a thought crime and I admitted to myself I couldn't I realized that I had more mercy in my little pinkie than the God of the universe has in His entire body_
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Post by svenM
Weren't you an universalist? So your premise is wrong or did you come to the conclusion that universalism is not biblical, if so, why?
I was fundamentalist, then universalist, then preterist, finally agnostic deist.
I became deist after realizing God completely ignores prayer from everybody. If God doesn't answer prayers or intervene in our lives then He is a Deist God.
You're twisting the meaningof the writer of 4 Maccabees 10:15 to suit your purposes. You cannot base the full range of meaning of the word ἀίδιος on the two verses in the Bible in which it is used.
Furthermore, the Bible clearly uses the other word, αἰώνιος in certain contexts to refer to unending duration. What is English is expressed by the terms 'eternal' or 'everlasting'. And this is recognized by very many scholars of the Greek language, and seen by an objective reading of the pertinent verses in which it is used in that context. But that won't stop people such as yourself from denying it.
You're twisting the meaning of the writer of 4 Maccabees 10:15 to suit your purposes. You cannot base the full range of meaning of the word ἀίδιος on the two verses in the Bible in which it is used.
Furthermore, the Bible clearly uses the other word, αἰώνιος in certain contexts to refer to unending duration. What is English is expressed by the terms 'eternal' or 'everlasting'. And this is recognized by very many scholars of the Greek language, and seen by an objective reading of the pertinent verses in which it is used in that context. But that won't stop people such as yourself from denying it.
There are that many things based on 1 verse of scripture by fundamentalist christians, this comment is a bit rich coming from a bible fundamentalist.
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