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The most fascinating attempts at being Christ-like were made by the 17-century French Jesuit priests who moved into what is now Canada to help out the souls of the natives.
Unlike the English and Spanish who were invading...er...exploring the lower parts of the continent, the Jesuits went into very harsh terrain and met with some very harsh natives. Also unlike other Europeans, they came completely unarmed and knowingly outnumbered. Of course, they were routinely attacked, killed, and tortured by native tribes. But guess what...they didn't mind that at all. In fact, to them the more they could suffer doing the lord's work, the more Christ-like they became. So they wore their scars and burns proudly. If they got a limb or an ear removed (this was a trademark of one tribe - I can't remember which), well then, all the more popular you would be back home. And to be killed was the greatest glory of all - to ascend to heaven just like their hero, as they saw it.
IMO, to be Christ like also involves believing and knowing who He is..what was His purpose here..why was he tortured and hung on the cross..where did He go..Of course it also involves knowing and following his commandments which can be wrapped up in the word "love"..I think most people are very moral folks who are good people, charitible and kind..Christians were not given the privilege of being the only ones who possessed morals..That would almost be like saying that you have no morals unless you are Christian
Well, that's kind of my point ILNC. I try very hard to be all of these things without a belief in Christ. Really, I do. So, it confuses me when people say "You'll know what it means to be Christ-like when you find Christ" but it seems by many standards I'm not doing a very bad job to begin with. I just don't understand what living a "Christ-like" life has anything more to do with living a moral life.
Now, from a spirtual perspective, perhaps those who believe in Christ feel they are "saved" and have to act as if they are "saved" to maintain that status... But, to me, it just seems like all you have to do to maintain such is to act by what YOU (not you specifically) feel is right and wrong.
After all, I'm running out of fingers and toes trying to count how many times I've heard "They may say they're Christians but they don't act like it." However, I find myself thinking that the judge and jury in this situation would still consider the defendant a Christian if they had the same tolerance for cultural faux pas. It just seems more like a conflict in personal choice than spiritual choice.
Philippians 2:5-8 "Your attitude should be the same that Christ had. Though He was God, He did not demand and cling to His rights as God. He made Himself nothing, He took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form. And in human form He obediently humbled Himself even further by dying a criminals death on a cross."
I understand what you are saying Troop. So what do think makes you want to have the good qualities that have?
Maybe the difference is attitude. When we (Christians) say we follow Christ, we must also say we want to live as He lived and we develop this with a different attitude. So what do you think gives you the desire to be kind, gentle and loving person that I know you are?
Last edited by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA; 05-01-2008 at 07:44 PM..
Philippians 2:5-8 "Your attitude should be the same that Christ had. Though He was God, He did not demand and cling to His rights as God. He made Himself nothing, He took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form. And in human form He obediently humbled Himself even further by dying a criminals death on a cross."
I understand what you are saying Troop. So what do think makes you want to have the good qualities that have?
Maybe the difference is attitude. When we (Christians) say we follow Christ, we must also say we want to live as He lived and we develop this with a different attitude. So what do you think gives you the desire to be kind, gentle and loving person that I know you are?
I know what you mean about "Living as he lived" and I think that's a very noble gesture. Really I mean that. I just think that people get so wrapped up in trying to live how he lived that they apply their own personal philosophies into the mix and there becomes this massive intersection full of green lights and no red lights. People just barrel right through it without looking both ways and collisions happen more often than not.
As for what gives me the desire to be a kind person... I think that humans have an innate sense of right and wrong more so as a product of survival than anything divine. I firmly believe that neuroscience supports this - for example I just recently read a study in which increased levels of oxytocin correlates directly with philanthropical gestures. However, aside from the biological and evolutionary necessity for us to be reciprocating creatures, I think from my own personal perspective that I find it rewarding to help others and not belittle them. I have a true sense of joy in watching someone succeed after I've helped them or even advised them.
Let me put it this way. I don't look at any particular person as not having to put their pants on one leg at a time. I try to treat everyone with respect, although my respect is not always mutually guaranteed in return. When I was in the military, there was a guy I worked with who everyone utterly "slammed" for being a little bit different. Now that I think about it, he was an extremely devout Christian but never pushed his ways, but that's aside from the story. Anyway, people treated this guy like crap. They found every excuse to hammer him into the dirt and to be quite honest I'd never really worked with the guy. Because of constant rotations in and out of the Middle East I just never worked with the guy and only heard the stories other people told. Right at the end of my tenure in the military, I was given the opportunity (more like demand) to work with this guy on a very big aircraft modification. In all sincerity, he was so nervous about making a mistake for fear of how I might judge him that he was a barrel of negativity. He was scared to death of doing anything on the airplane and I just told him to relax. I was very patient with him, treated him like a human being, and I taught him a ton in that one week. All he wanted was to be treated with mutual respect and not be pounded for being a little different. I respected that and by the end of the week he was full throttle doing things with me by his side. Now, I must admit, from a selfish perspective, I knew that it was necessary for me to foster his trust in me in order to get the job done, but that wasn't the only reason. I just saw him as a human being and that he COULD excel if given the right chance.
Around six months ago, he called me and told me that he'd just been accepted to be one of the first mechanics in a squadron with a new airplane. He just wanted to thank me for helping him out and giving him some confidence. That's all he needed and I hope he's doing alright. I'm sure people are still treating him badly, he's just one of those people who others love to torture (which I'll never understand) but in my mind he'll always remember the time where we not only kicked butt on the modification but we received accolades from our command in doing so.
The trick is, from my understanding, to just treat others how you would want to be treated. And, if that's what you call "Christ-like" I really don't see how you can go wrong with that. Whether you or I believe in God and Jesus or not, there IS an innate sense of moral responsibility on some behalf. Though, I am under the impression that it is a biological and neurological function more than a spiritual one.
The most fascinating attempts at being Christ-like were made by the 17-century French Jesuit priests who moved into what is now Canada to help out the souls of the natives.
Unlike the English and Spanish who were invading...er...exploring the lower parts of the continent, the Jesuits went into very harsh terrain and met with some very harsh natives. Also unlike other Europeans, they came completely unarmed and knowingly outnumbered. Of course, they were routinely attacked, killed, and tortured by native tribes. But guess what...they didn't mind that at all. In fact, to them the more they could suffer doing the lord's work, the more Christ-like they became. So they wore their scars and burns proudly. If they got a limb or an ear removed (this was a trademark of one tribe - I can't remember which), well then, all the more popular you would be back home. And to be killed was the greatest glory of all - to ascend to heaven just like their hero, as they saw it.
Now, that's a life dedicated to Christ.
Those guys did much harm to the native population. In many cases more than half of the indigenous population was wiped out by the diseases spread by the missions, not only there but all over North America. The native peoples had no immunity for small pox, influenza or any of the other diseases the missions inadvertently infected them with...Many villages were entirely wiped out here on the west coast after first contact with Europeans....God works in mysterious ways I guess, huh?
I know what you mean about "Living as he lived" and I think that's a very noble gesture. Really I mean that. I just think that people get so wrapped up in trying to live how he lived that they apply their own personal philosophies into the mix and there becomes this massive intersection full of green lights and no red lights. People just barrel right through it without looking both ways and collisions happen more often than not.
As for what gives me the desire to be a kind person... I think that humans have an innate sense of right and wrong more so as a product of survival than anything divine. I firmly believe that neuroscience supports this - for example I just recently read a study in which increased levels of oxytocin correlates directly with philanthropical gestures. However, aside from the biological and evolutionary necessity for us to be reciprocating creatures, I think from my own personal perspective that I find it rewarding to help others and not belittle them. I have a true sense of joy in watching someone succeed after I've helped them or even advised them.
Let me put it this way. I don't look at any particular person as not having to put their pants on one leg at a time. I try to treat everyone with respect, although my respect is not always mutually guaranteed in return. When I was in the military, there was a guy I worked with who everyone utterly "slammed" for being a little bit different. Now that I think about it, he was an extremely devout Christian but never pushed his ways, but that's aside from the story. Anyway, people treated this guy like crap. They found every excuse to hammer him into the dirt and to be quite honest I'd never really worked with the guy. Because of constant rotations in and out of the Middle East I just never worked with the guy and only heard the stories other people told. Right at the end of my tenure in the military, I was given the opportunity (more like demand) to work with this guy on a very big aircraft modification. In all sincerity, he was so nervous about making a mistake for fear of how I might judge him that he was a barrel of negativity. He was scared to death of doing anything on the airplane and I just told him to relax. I was very patient with him, treated him like a human being, and I taught him a ton in that one week. All he wanted was to be treated with mutual respect and not be pounded for being a little different. I respected that and by the end of the week he was full throttle doing things with me by his side. Now, I must admit, from a selfish perspective, I knew that it was necessary for me to foster his trust in me in order to get the job done, but that wasn't the only reason. I just saw him as a human being and that he COULD excel if given the right chance.
Around six months ago, he called me and told me that he'd just been accepted to be one of the first mechanics in a squadron with a new airplane. He just wanted to thank me for helping him out and giving him some confidence. That's all he needed and I hope he's doing alright. I'm sure people are still treating him badly, he's just one of those people who others love to torture (which I'll never understand) but in my mind he'll always remember the time where we not only kicked butt on the modification but we received accolades from our command in doing so.
The trick is, from my understanding, to just treat others how you would want to be treated. And, if that's what you call "Christ-like" I really don't see how you can go wrong with that. Whether you or I believe in God and Jesus or not, there IS an innate sense of moral responsibility on some behalf. Though, I am under the impression that it is a biological and neurological function more than a spiritual one.
Oh Troop that was such a kind thing you did for this man! And to me it was very Christ like.
I believe that Matt. 22:36-39 is a good starting place because when you love God as the scripture says, then you will do what it takes to please Him and that is being Christ-like. You made a good point about treating others as you would want people to treat you. That's loving yourself. But there are alot of things that Christians can do that is not sin (1 Cor. 10:12). You just have to be in control. But there are also alot of things that Christians do that is sin and the only way to know is to study His word and talk to other people about it. It doesn't matter what subject you put on the forum, there will always be disagreements.
I gave the wrong scripture. It's not 1 Cor. 10:12, but 1 Cor. 6:12. Sorry.
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