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But I would say that the Father is a distinct individual from the Son and that He does indeed have wrath and justice against sin. Nahum 1:2-3 is clear on that.
Jesus said, if you have seen me you have seen the Father. In other words to see the Father, you have to look beyond the jewish man with a long hair and a beard, if that is what you are lookin at, you will never see the Father.
There is only one Jesus and only one God. The true nature and Holy Spirit of Jesus was unambiguously revealed during the life and death circumstances of the Cross. That is when there can be no doubt or confusion about His true character.
Life and Death circumstances produce that kind of clarity. If you believe Jesus is God then there can be no possibility that God has wrath and vengeance in Him because Jesus clearly had NONE in Him under the most excruciating wrath producing circumstances for a human to endure.
Your naive and gullible beliefs about the writings of our primitive ancestors have no such clarity or certainty. Their interpretations are based on their unshakeable belief in a wrathful and vengeful God which Jesus clearly refutes!!! May God help you to see this, brother.
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
Yes, there is only one Jesus and only one God.
However, when you define Jesus differently than the true definition of who He is, you create in your mind a Jesus that is not the true Jesus of the Bible (2 Corinthians 11:3-4); even the imagination of your heart.
You stubborn man.I DO NOT DEFINE JESUS. He defined and revealed Himself as agape love and forgiveness unambiguously on the Cross!!! Our ancestors' beliefs about God and Jesus do not define them, Jesus does!!!
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Jesus' purpose in coming to earth was to suffer and die on the Cross. From His perspective, He had already poured out His wrath upon Himself before descending to become a Man.
Wrong. That is what our ignorant primitive ancestors believed because they only knew a wrathful and vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices. They could not imagine any other God.
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I do believe that it says somewhere in Isaiah that "I the LORD will be sanctified in holiness" and in Hebrews we find that the captain of our salvation was made into a perfect High Priest through the sufferings that He went through.
How that applies to the doctrine that the LORD cannot change, it beats me.
What needs to change is our ancestors' ignorant primitive beliefs about God, NOT God. Jesus brought the correct understanding of God to them but they rejected Him and the God He presented to them because, like you, they were wedded to their belief in a wrathful and vengeful War God, NOT some wimpy agape loving and forgiving God.
Jesus said, if you have seen me you have seen the Father. In other words to see the Father, you have to look beyond the jewish man with a long hair and a beard, if that is what you are lookin at, you will never see the Father.
You stubborn man.I DO NOT DEFINE JESUS. He defined and revealed Himself as agape love and forgiveness unambiguously on the Cross!!! Our ancestors' beliefs about God and Jesus do not define them, Jesus does!!! Wrong. That is what our ignorant primitive ancestors believed because they only knew a wrathful and vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices. They could not imagine any other God.
What needs to change is our ancestors' ignorant primitive beliefs about God, NOT God. Jesus brought the correct understanding of God to them but they rejected Him and the God He presented to them because, like you, they were wedded to their belief in a wrathful and vengeful War God, NOT some wimpy agape loving and forgiving God.
So, in your opinion, Jesus is not the God of the Old Testament?
You stubborn man.I DO NOT DEFINE JESUS. He defined and revealed Himself as agape love and forgiveness unambiguously on the Cross!!! Our ancestors' beliefs about God and Jesus do not define them, Jesus does!!! Wrong. That is what our ignorant primitive ancestors believed because they only knew a wrathful and vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices. They could not imagine any other God.
What needs to change is our ancestors' ignorant primitive beliefs about God, NOT God. Jesus brought the correct understanding of God to them but they rejected Him and the God He presented to them because, like you, they were wedded to their belief in a wrathful and vengeful War God, NOT some wimpy agape loving and forgiving God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
So, in your opinion, Jesus is not the God of the Old Testament?
Try just a little harder to actually THINK about what I post, JBF. The descriptions of God and His motives as interpreted and recorded by our ignorant primitive ancestors in the OT are NOT who God actually IS as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus Christ!!! That is what Jesus tried to teach our ancestors but He was rejected for it.
The Biblical narratives are based on a primitive misunderstanding of God because they are under the veil of ignorance (blind minds) due to Moses. 2nd Cor 3:14-17. If you do not understand the "mind of Christ" you cannot remove that veil and see the truth.
Try just a little harder to actually THINK about what I post, JBF. The descriptions of God and His motives as interpreted and recorded by our ignorant primitive ancestors in the OT are NOT who God actually IS as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus Christ!!! That is what Jesus tried to teach our ancestors but He was rejected for it.
The Biblical narratives are based on a primitive misunderstanding of God because they are under the veil of ignorance (blind minds) due to Moses. 2nd Cor 3:14-17. If you do not understand the "mind of Christ" you cannot remove that veil and see the truth.
I'm actually thinking of the teaching of the Old Testament when I say that God from that venue taught our "ancestors" to fear Him and to have what you call a primitive understanding.
He instituted the sacrifices that give us the impression that when Jesus died as the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world, that He died as a propitiation; and not of the wrath of "our primitive and savage ancestors".
Try just a little harder to actually THINK about what I post, JBF. The descriptions of God and His motives as interpreted and recorded by our ignorant primitive ancestors in the OT are NOT who God actually IS as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus Christ!!! That is what Jesus tried to teach our ancestors but He was rejected for it.
The Biblical narratives are based on a primitive misunderstanding of God because they are under the veil of ignorance (blind minds) due to Moses. 2nd Cor 3:14-17. If you do not understand the "mind of Christ" you cannot remove that veil and see the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
I'm actually thinking of the teaching of the Old Testament when I say that God from that venue taught our "ancestors" to fear Him and to have what you call a primitive understanding.
He instituted the sacrifices that give us the impression that when Jesus died as the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world, that He died as a propitiation; and not of the wrath of "our primitive and savage ancestors".
But God did not institute sacrifices. We did and God expressed His disappointment and disapproval directly when Noah stupidly sacrificed the very animals he was told to save on the ark.
Genesis 8:20-21 (King James Version)
20And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
God realized that we were still too immature (young) at that time to understand He needs no such stupid sacrifices. (That may be how we lost the unicorns.) Remember Jesus explicitly said God never wanted sacrifices.
Again, for me to continue engaging with you, Mystic, would only be to strive and argue and I believe at this point that that would be a pointless endeavor.
Again, for me to continue engaging with you, Mystic, would only be to strive and argue and I believe at this point that that would be a pointless endeavor.
I will be praying for you, my friend.
But that strife and argument is how others learn and are able to discern and distinguish between things and concepts
It is not actually pointless, as long as your focus is not just on yourselves, and it does not become just a thoughtless same thing over and over, attack and defence
1Co 11:19**For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
G139***(Strong)
αἵρεσις
hairesis
hah'ee-res-is
From G138; properly a choice, that is, (specifically) a party or (abstractly) disunion. (“heresy” is the Greek word itself.): - heresy [which is the Greekord itself], sect.
But that strife and argument is how others learn and are able to discern and distinguish between things and concepts
It is not actually pointless, as long as your focus is not just on yourselves, and it does not become just a thoughtless same thing over and over, attack and defence
1Co 11:19**For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
G139***(Strong)
αἵρεσις
hairesis
hah'ee-res-is
From G138; properly a choice, that is, (specifically) a party or (abstractly) disunion. (“heresy” is the Greek word itself.): - heresy [which is the Greek word sect], sect.
Unfortunately, instead of testing the so-called heresies against the Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness revealed by Jesus Christ, the so-called heresies were simply dismissed out of hand and given no thought whatsoever. That is why the doctrine has STAGNATED at the primitive level that it has.
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) Remember Jesus explicitly said God never wanted sacrifices.
