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As an atheist, I'm curious to know the definition as well. If your definition
is correct, then that means that all those who have rejected God cannot be saved.
Now if only all Christians believed that, perhaps they would leave us alone more?
You're out of luck - or rather IN luck, Gretchen.
The point of no return - is death.
While we're still alive, His grace is extended to all.
There is that thing about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, but if one reads what Jesus said, it was because the pharisees maintained that their eyes were open, that they were held accountable.
You on the other hand, maintain that there is nothing to see.
You might just yet catch a glimpse.
I was agnostic at one point, but I wanted to find out, so I put my questions and issues aside at least for the moment and went "all-in".
The next second, I was no longer agnostic.
That was 25 years ago and it was the best thing I've ever done.
..why, if your god exists hypothetically, he would be so concerned about people believing in him?
It is my belief that my God is the creator of all things. Whether you choose to believe in Him or not, does not make any difference. In my belief, you are still His child, his creation. And as Richio said, until your dieing breath, you can come to believe that, to accept His Son as your Lord and Savior. This is what He desires for you. However, if you die still denying Him, then it is my belief that you will spend an eternity without Him. A place you have chosen with your God-given, free will.
I agree, well said. We have a choice to make, God wants all to come to repentance and loves us so, enough that he sent his Son to die for us. It's a free gift. Some will come to Him and others will try life on their own efforts.
why, if your god exists hypothetically, he would be so concerned about people believing in him?
I believe, Gretchen_SDCA that God wants all to have a relationship with Him. When we believe and understand what Jesus has done for us because God loves us so much, we will want to honor Him with our lives. He gave His life so that we can live. Without His death and resurrection there is really no real life for any of us. We are lost and slaves to sin. But we can be overcomers of sin. I for one don't believe in eternal hell or eternal death for anyone who does not come to Him now, but I do believe that there will be suffering when He comes back to judge us, if we do not know Him then. The sooner we come to Him, the sooner we will begin to truly live. God's blessings.
Mark 3:29 (New International Version) But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
Quote:
Luke 12:10 (New International Version) And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
blaspheme transitive verb 1 : to speak of or address with irreverence
As quoted on other posts in this thread, there is nothing that God/Jesus cannot forgive. God is Love, and Love cannot harbor hate.....they are diametrically opposed.
So the question becomes, "What can you do to have Jesus turn from you and not hear you, because he loves you! ??????
After much discussion (prayer) and contemplation, I was moved to look at my relations with my kids. If God is the Father, then how does a Father QUIT being a father? I looked at scenarios as they related to me and my children.
When I accepted Jesus into my life, I became an "adopted kid" of God the Father. So, if I have an adopted kid, if he messes up, does he stop being my kid? Of course not. children are not disposable or returnable. How about if he does something atrocious, like murder? No, not even then. I might even turn my kid into the authorities because by being my kid does not prevent him from being held accountable.....and when he got out of prison I would welcome him back home. This is all based on love, right? and God is Love.
BUT (and this is where the blaspheme part comes into play), how would I feel if I went to my kid, the one in trouble, and the kid started cussing ME. I, who had given him everything, who had promised him an inheritance, who had promised to assume the burden of all the wrongs he had ever committed? Not only did he cuss me, revile me, verbally abuse me, but he tells me to get the "f" out of his life. Never come back, that he never wanted to hear from me again. If I look into his heart, and I see that he is serious, if I LOVE him, I will do as he asks. I will turn my back on him. I will leave him to his own fate. He will be written out of my will. He will have no inheritance, no support, no nothing............I will do it because I LOVE him, I respect his free will and his decision.......despite how much his hatred for me grieves me, I will do as he asks. And down the road, if he calls me, I will not answer. If he pleads to come home, I will not open that door. He made his choice and he meant it. He is no longer my child.
That is the way the Heavenly Father will treat you. It doesn't matter what sin you commit or when you commit it. He will be with you as you face your punishments, at the final judgment, He will take your place......He LOVES you. He DIED a horrible death for you. He will never forsake you or abandon you. The one and only unforgivable sin is if, having accepted Him into your life as Redeemer, Savior, and joined Him as a member of His family, you turn to Him, curse Him (blaspheme/revile) and demand Him to remove Himself out of your life. With grief and out of love, He will turn away from you and will NOT hear you again.
This is why Anton LeVay, in the Satanic Bible, has made it a pre-qualification to be a priest in the Satanic Church, that you must first be a defrocked priest or pastor......you must have KNOWN Jesus as a personal Redeemer.......you must have known Him and REJECTED Him........Turned your back on Jesus after having been "adopted." Then, regardless of what you do, you are Satan's own.......and the Redeemer will not save you.
And down the road, if he calls me, I will not answer. If he pleads to come home, I will not open that door. He made his choice and he meant it. He is no longer my child.
Wow. I believe that God's love is greater than this. I think about the prodigal son and the father's response. Many have not cursed God or hated God like ths, yet many believe that God will forever turn His back on them too. I believe that God's love and power can overcome any hatred and and if someone returns to God sincerely, He will accept them. No one is too far gone. I think of these words of Jesus to those who even killed Him, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do". He will still love them and want the best for them. This is agape, unconditional love. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-30-2008 at 08:37 PM..
........I think of these words of Jesus to those who even killed Him, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do".
Right. If a person acts in innocence, He WILL forgive them. If they "know not what they do" then He does not hold it against them. However, if they DO know, and they blaspheme and revile and rebuke the Holy Spirit.......if the individual closes the door, God will not open it. For those that don't know, God keeps it open, hoping, one day, they will walk in.
I disagree. God's love and power is greater than someone who in ignorance deliberately closes the door. They may blaspheme, revile and rebuke, but they don't really know what they are doing. The religious leaders who blasphemed were those who participated in handing Him over but all of this was part of the plan of God. It had to happen. Those who reject the Lord are said to be blinded, under the domain of satan. Jesus came to destroy the works of satan. And I believe that God does much more than hope that someone will walk in. I believe that God's love can overcome any hatred and and if someone returns to God sincerely, He will accept them. He is described as agape. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-30-2008 at 08:31 PM..
It isn't about me explaining, Goodpasture. I will share what I believe it means, also in consideration of the scriptures as a whole.
Luke 12:10and every one whoever shall say a word to the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven to him, but to him who to the Holy Spirit did speak evil, it shall not be forgiven. (Young's Literal)
Mark 3:29. but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;' (Young's Literal)
Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven of that sin. They will suffer the consequences. The punishment will be during an age. God bless.
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