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Rev 12
1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
The Queen of Heaven. Mary, the Mother of God. Please oh Protestant ones, how ELSE can you interpret (oh should I say twist) this scripture any other way?
This passage, from my reading, does not call the woman the queen of heaven. The only "queen " I found mentioned in Revelations is in 18:7, and it refers to babylon.
Furthermore, nowhere in this passage do I find a precedent for setting up the woman as someone to be worshiped.
Read the entire book of Revelations, including 22:18-19.
The "Woman" is the elect or the True Church. They are the true believers who obey the 10 Commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. The 12 stars are the 12 Tribes of Biblical Israel* where Jesus Christ came from. The red dragon is Satan who wants to destroy the true Church. It is not about the human Mary because it is talking about the future, specifically the 3.5 years (1260 days) of Great Tribulation... when the true believers (Woman) will flee to the wilderness where God will protect and nourish them.
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*Biblical Israel - U.K. and Commonwealth (Canada, Australia, N.Z.), the USA, Western Europe, Scandinavia, and the Jews.
Only the Jews (Judah, Benjamin, part of Levi) are identified as "Israel" because they kept the Sabbath. The rest are called the Lost 10 tribes because they broke the Sabbath and lost their identity!
Rev 12
1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
The Queen of Heaven. Mary, the Mother of God. Please oh Protestant ones, how ELSE can you interpret (oh should I say twist) this scripture any other way?
Can't wait for the replies
This issue that surrounds Mary isn't as you described... "Mother of Heaven" interpretations, but rather what it implies... it is three fold.
1) Does The Marian Doctrine contain co-redemptive value?
2) Does the Marian Doctrine allow Mary to be our advocate?
3) Does the Marian Doctrine allow Mary to mediate our sin?
Did you know that the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary was held not only by most of the church fathers, but by Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and even John Wesley? This still remains a topic of controversy within the Catholic and Evangelical community.
I believe the historical importance of Mary is lost in most Protestant belief systems, unjustly so I might add, and elevated to divinity in the majority of Catholic Saints (believers). However I must point out that neither, the Evangelical position or the Roman Catholic position, is reflected as "dogma" in both Christian faiths. In fact, doctrinal control of Mary has been exercised many times by the RC church to "limit" those within her own body, who would elevate Marian Doctrine to a divine human... and become dogmatic.
I believe Mary should be regarded in the same "general" view as (going out on a limb here) Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist, and I use these as "just" examples. I do not pray to them but have honored them as fathers and mothers of our faith. My position is Mary is a person of "special recognition" with the annointment of God.
Humans want kings or queens... as evident in the Old Testament but at the end of the day... it's God.
If you'd like we could discuss the above 3 issues. I won't debate scripture but will use scripture to support my position.
=DNick;7372438]Rev 12 1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
The Queen of Heaven. Mary, the Mother of God. Please oh Protestant ones, how ELSE can you interpret (oh should I say twist) this scripture any other way?
Can't wait for the replies
Quote:
The Queen of Heaven. Mary, the Mother of God. Please oh Protestant ones, how ELSE can you interpret (oh should I say twist) this scripture any other way?
Jer. 7:11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.
12 But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel.
13 And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not;
14 Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh.
15 And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim.
16 ¶ Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.
17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
Jer. 44:13 For I will punish them that dwell in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence:
14 So that none of the remnant of Judah, which are gone into the land of Egypt to sojourn there, shall escape or remain, that they should return into the land of Judah, to the which they have a desire to return to dwell there: for none shall return but such as shall escape.
15 ¶ Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,
16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee.
17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
20 ¶ Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying,
21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind?
22 So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.
Rev 12
1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
The Queen of Heaven. Mary, the Mother of God. Please oh Protestant ones, how ELSE can you interpret (oh should I say twist) this scripture any other way?
Can't wait for the replies
Hello DNick
The queen of Heaven in Jeremiah 44 is an idol that the tribe of Judah was worshiping and God said he was going to judge them.
Revelation 12:1, and there appeared a great wonder in heaven. A woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and upon her head a crown of 12 stars. There is nothing here about the queen of Heaven.
This is talking about Israel. The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel. Christ is to be born from the nation of Israel . And the remnant of Israel is to be protected by God through the 3 1/2 years of great tribulation.
Unless, of course, if you tell me that Mary is to be worshiped. And I have spoken to other Catholics that say we do not worship Mary.
This passage, from my reading, does not call the woman the queen of heaven. The only "queen " I found mentioned in Revelations is in 18:7, and it refers to babylon.
Furthermore, nowhere in this passage do I find a precedent for setting up the woman as someone to be worshiped.
Read the entire book of Revelations, including 22:18-19.
Yes while the the book doesn't say queen explicitly, it does infer it implicitly. She is crowned, with would refer to some type of royalty.
And Who says she is to be worshiped?
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