Christian Mystism (mystic, recall, experience, versus)
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It still deceives. It is sometimes labeled “Christian Mysticism”, as evidenced by this thread. And it will continue to deceive until the end of the age.
If anyone is so inclined, this is a long read;
but interesting.
Disgarding the obvious voodoo characteristics of gnostism, it's subtle heresy almost succeeded corrupting many people.
The difference that my perspective brought to the study of Gnostic literature (and other writings) . . . was my lack of preference for ANY version. I had no version to defend . . . I was an atheist who had discovered indisputable personal proof that God exists. I wanted to find answers, period . . . not defend or choose the right religious orthodoxy. It should be sufficient to underwrite my Christian credentials that I was led to Jesus out of the bewildering mire of speculations and descriptions that abound . . (of which some of the Gnostic views contain the most abstruse and ridiculous . . . aptly named Jabberwocky by one of the critics mentioned in this excellent (but biased) synopsis.
That does not mean ALL of it was nonsense . . . many concepts clearly aided interpretation of some of the less obvious spiritual messages in the bible . . . particularly from a spiritual evolution and psychological perspective. I repeat . . . we are ALL "spiritually blind" seekers looking at and trying to understand the same reality and God (there is only ONE) . . . everything we each see contains part of the "elephant." This is why exclusivists and anti-ecumenicalists give me such a headache . . . it is one of the more troublesome of human negative characteristics and motivations . . . to be "special."
It still deceives. It is sometimes labeled “Christian Mysticism”, as evidenced by this thread. And it will continue to deceive until the end of the age.
It is NOT Christian Mysticism . . . your misrepresentation is clearly the result of ignorance.
The difference that my perspective brought to the study of Gnostic literature (and other writings) . . . was my lack of preference for ANY version. I had no version to defend . . . I was an atheist who had discovered indisputable personal proof that God exists. I wanted to find answers, period . . . not defend or choose the right religious orthodoxy. It should be sufficient to underwrite my Christian credentials that I was led to Jesus out of the bewildering mire of speculations and descriptions that abound . . (of which some of the Gnostic views contain the most abstruse and ridiculous . . . aptly named Jabberwocky by one of the critics mentioned in this excellent (but biased) synopsis.
That does not mean ALL of it was nonsense . . . many concepts clearly aided interpretation of some of the less obvious spiritual messages in the bible . . . particularly from a spiritual evolution and psychological perspective. I repeat . . . we are ALL "spiritually blind" seekers looking at and trying to understand the same reality and God (there is only ONE) . . . everything we each see contains part of the "elephant." This is why exclusivists and anti-ecumenicalists give me such a headache . . . it is one of the more troublesome of human negative characteristics and motivations . . . to be "special."
"For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known"
Neither Blue Fly nor carolina guy correctly represent or characterize Christian Mysticism, Alpha. Feel free to judge it using their presentations . . . but it is error nonetheless. Fundamentalism and magical beliefs are pure error, as well, and will lead to many surprised and disappointed individuals who do not embody Love of God and each other, IMO. Jesus is the Way . . . but SAYING it and incorporating it into your life are two very different things. There are those who SAY it and do NOT have Jesus's love in their hearts . . . and there are those who DON'T SAY it and DO have Jesus's love in their hearts.
I'm not sure you fully understand the breadth of my experience to make such a claim, nor have you necessarily experienced human consciousness on a level that allows you to speak with authority.
You seem to be assessing my experience based upon an assumption that you have reached some sort of pinnacle.
There are many ways to get to Denver and many tools for each individual. Native Americans had certain tools at their disposal, as do Hindus. They all reflect the same love Christ demonstrated. I come from a Christian / Western tradition, so that is the mythology used to guide me. I rather resent your accusation that I say one thing and experience another.
I do agree with your larger point that gnosticism and mysticism are two very different camps.
I find it intriguing how easily conservative Christians are allowed to make inflammatory and personal attacks on this forum against others' spirituality and face no repercussions. It truly boggles the mind.
Read many of the posts on this thread from the perspective of someone speaking of your own spiritual path. See if you wouldn't take offense.
Find love and you will have no need to corral people to agree with you.
I'm not sure you fully understand the breadth of my experience to make such a claim, nor have you necessarily experienced human consciousness on a level that allows you to speak with authority.
You seem to be assessing my experience based upon an assumption that you have reached some sort of pinnacle.
There are many ways to get to Denver and many tools for each individual. Native Americans had certain tools at their disposal, as do Hindus. They all reflect the same love Christ demonstrated. I come from a Christian / Western tradition, so that is the mythology used to guide me. I rather resent your accusation that I say one thing and experience another.
I was not attacking you, Blue Fly. I don't recall speaking about your experiences at all . . . only about the fact that your views do not embody Christian Mysticism. They are quite Mystical . . . but not of Christian origin. Sorry . . . but to me, they smack of the types of mystical experiences attained NOT by conscious disciplined control over our brain states . . . but by external means (which allow for no control and flights of subconscious fancy). That would be my guess . . . but I certainly have no evidence of it. Your allusion to Western tradition suggests peyote . . . but it could be shrooms, LSD, and any number of psychotropic substances . . . which in my view would invalidate the experiences. I hope I am wrong.
If my suppositions are wrong . . . I certainly apologize. But I have extensive personal experience with these altered states while under disciplined conscious control and have encountered and "sourced" those of an internal (subconscious) versus those of an external nature. None of the external sourced experiences match those you allude to . . . many of the internal subconscious sourced were very similar.
Quote:
I do agree with your larger point that gnosticism and mysticism are two very different camps.
Granted . . . we do not significantly disagree about the reality of SOME of these kinds of mystical experiences, Blue Fly . . . but we definitely disagree about which ones might or might not BE real and about what constitutes Christian Mysticism.
I've never engaged in an altered state, mystic. That just creates distortion. Even when people access other planes through such means, what they are seeing is completely distorted.
I can't control what has chosen to engage with me. The veil is very thin for me and I have, unwittingly, experienced things that I never sought and can't fully explain but they have proven to be very positive.
At the core, they were simply tools for a brief period of my life to elevate me to a level to interact in the manner of which you speak (internal subconscious). Once I got a direct connection to my higher consciousness, there was no need for any outside help.
The final step for me was an incredibly intense guided journey to meet the one we call Christ. The climax was the revelation that the one I needed to meet was myself - that Christ I sought resides within.
So, I suspect we're talking about the same. Perhaps you confuse me with Reverend, who seems to be more engaged in interactions with external forces.
I am not.
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