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I think all babies are born innocent and free of sin.. I do not think they are born with the genetics to sin..I think that is learned along with good and bad choice.
Innocent does not equal sinless. Whether we agree with it or not, by one man's single act of disobedience the mass of mankind "were made" sinners. Not fair we say? Of course it is not fair, nor is the remainder of the equation...the same mass of mankind, made sinners are the mass of mankind "made righteous."
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Babies are born into a sinful world, but are sinless at birth and up to their age of understanding the choice between right and wrong.
Quite to the contrary, babies are born innocent with the D.N.A. of Adam 1 which leans to rebellion, darkness and sin (nature). Little babies are baby rebels ready to manifest themselves at the earliest convenience as full grown rebels.
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Wasn't Adam created perfect..a whole grown man with man's mature intelligence?
As a matter of fact, no! Adam was created innocent, and far, far from perfect. His perfection lay in the road of obedience to his Father, which we know very well was not realized.
ETA: Alpha and BigT, it really is off topic about when a baby becomes a baby, etc.
I understand that and apologize for my part of the hijack.
It was the connection that was made between --if all babies to go heaven (which would be good) then let's celebrate for an aborted baby(that's now in heaven).
So while where the other poster and myself took that debate a little farther than we should have, the origin of the discussion was on-topic.
I truly am sorry for carrying your thread off topic though.
Thank you so much to those who have answered the question. To those who answered "somewhere else" or "other", could you please explain your belief if you already haven't?
I believe that babies are born into the death state. We are all born into the death state, and this is why we sin. We sin because we are mortal.
Romans 5:12
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because [eph' ho, "on which"] all sinned-
A baby will inevitably become a sinner if he or she does not die before committing sin. It is inevitable. Being born into the death state, is why we become sinners. Innocent babies who have never sinned still die because of the death state that we are born into. When a person dies, he or she is dead, having no consciousness and are not living in heaven or what is believed to be everlasting hell. The dead do not know that they are dead. The scriptures say that no one has ascended into heaven, but for the Son of man. Little babies will be freed from the death state, when death, the last enemy is abolished and when all are restored in Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15) God bless.
They can't. They are in sin! Lost, and will prove it in very short notice!
I'm still waiting for the proof
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Originally Posted by Miss Blue
Babies go straight to Heaven, no prayers needed, no baptism needed, no intercession of saints, and no "regeneration" (whatever the heck that is)
I think all babies are born innocent and free of sin.. I do not think they are born with the genetics to sin..I think that is learned along with good and bad choice.
Babies are born into a sinful world, but are sinless at birth and up to their age of understanding the choice between right and wrong.
Wasn't Adam created perfect..a whole grown man with man's mature intelligence? Wasn't Satan already about his business on the earth? Didn't man have a choice to obey or disobey God? A new born can not choose anything..They are totally dependant on the choices of their parents...
AMEN!!! Totally agree, all babies go straight to Heaven!
They go to heaven. David said to the prophet that there is no use in fasting because the child is dead and he will see him in heaven.
Greetings, Fundamentalist: Actually, David simply said "I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me" (2 Sam. 12:23). For the Jew, Sheol was the destiny of the dead. In the NT, as you know, the term is Hades. As we see in Luke 16, there were two areas of Hades--Paradise and the section in which the rich man dwelt in torment. Paradise is where Jesus and the thief on the cross went at death. It is where Abraham and Lazarus waited until Christ would come and put an end to Hades. David's child was dead and no longer remained in David's world--among the living on earth. David would go to him in the sense that all died and went to the place of the dead--Sheol.
Just because David stated that he would be with his son, does not establish any precedent that all babies go to heaven. As a chaplain's wife, I never give such an assurance. My approach is to get the grieving parent(s) to concentrate on the nature of God rather than on the child. Since God is good, righteous, just, holy, loving, etc., we can entrust departed babies to His perfect judgment to do with them what is good, righteous, just, holy, and loving.
Did God take to Himself all the babies of the enemies of Israel whom He ordered slain? Were all the Israelite babies who were killed by the enemies of Israel taken to be with God? We do not know. Where the Scriptures are silent, we must be silent. What the Scriptures teach is that all have sinned--all enter this world "in Adam." In that sense, babies are not innocent in God's eyes. The concept of an age of accountability is a man-made doctrine to comfort the hearts of those who cannot accept that God could look in judgment upon a young one. Our understanding of innocent and God's understanding of it are likely two very different things.
Since salvation is all of grace and all of God, it is possible that God chooses to save all infants, but again, we cannot know. What we do know is that God is good and all that He does is good. It is into the hands of that God of goodness, justice and mercy that infants go. We entrust them to Him to do with them what is right in His eyes.
Since salvation is all of grace and all of God, it is possible that God chooses to save all infants, but again, we cannot know. What we do know is that God is good and all that He does is good. It is into the hands of that God of goodness, justice and mercy that infants go. We entrust them to Him to do with them what is right in His eyes.
Preterist
"We must all die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again; but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored."
*** Literally: For the banished to not be banished.
We do have verses that speak + or - about sin and our conception into that. It is simply false to claim that infants aren't sinful. All means all, and all includes infants.
Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 5:12
[ Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ ] Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned
It is also false to claim the unborn can't have a saving faith or reject God
Psalm 22:10 From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God. Psalm 58:3 Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.
I would lay such things before God. I still challange anyone who responds that children are sinless to provide scripture and not IMO or I believe's.
Remember, who does the choosing...God or human? Who gives the gift of faith...God or human?
Psalm 22:10 From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God. Psalm 58:3 Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.
You show me a baby that can talk from the womb and I'll reconsider my vote.
Do we serve a just God?
If we do, infants don't go to Hell, we can be certain of that.
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