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well u begin with '....if I have to hear this one more time....'
how many times before have u heard it?????
curious.....
Oh, o.k., now I see where our "gap" in communication is......I began with what my pastor said to me in our conversation together in his office, which was, "If I hear this one more time, I am going to have ask you to leave the church." I've never been told to leave a church...ever...and my pastor has never felt he needed to say this to me ever before, because up until just a few months ago, I hadn't received the knowledge of the truth...so I wasn't a "threat" to him as he believes that I am now...he isn't receiving what the Holy Spirit has given to me to share with him...and I have gone to him privately 3 times...and I put together a file of my studies, and gave it to him hoping he would ask me to come and talk with him about it...and for over 3 months I waited for his invitation, but I never received one.
On that particular Sunday afternoon, when I was fellowshipping with 5 of my closest sisters in Christ...I was asked for a response to their statements about our pastors' "wonderful teaching abilities," (in their opinion.) I began with explaining to them about the false teachers of Modern Christianity today, and I ended in stating that our pastor, (who I love and treat with great respect when speaking with him), was in grave error of being one of these teachers. I couldn't lie...just to keep peace...this was a door that had been opened to me to step through...and I knew then, as I do now, that I am in the will of God...and in His will is where I choose to be...no matter what the cost...Scripture tells us...the more knowledge...the more sorrow that comes with it...and I am prepared to suffer for Him, even if it means I loose the relationships that I have come to cherish.
I haven't left, because the Holy Spirit hasn't made that happen by the pastor telling me to leave...nor do I sense I should go...yet...I will wait upon the Lord, and I won't go before Him, maybe He will still use me there, in their midst...and so far, He has done a perfect job at working things out the way He wills them to work out. When I am to leave, I will know, and I will go...peaceably...knowing I did good in the sight of God. Pleasing Him is what I want to do...and what pleases Him...more than likely will not please our flesh...but He loves the sweet aroma of burning flesh.
.he isn't receiving what the Holy Spirit has given to me to share with him...and I have gone to him privately 3 times..
Why do you feel the Holy Spirit cannot tell him what He wants him to know? Why on earth would the Holy Spirit use you as an intermediary in such matters?
Being a pastor, the man should be communing regularly with the Lord. If there is anything He wants your pastor to know, the Lord is quite capable of telling it to him, without your assistance.
The fact that you are going to your pastor, believing you are speaking as God's voice, is scary. Instead of going to your pastor and telling him these things, ask the Lord to lay it on his heart. If it's really something the Lord wants him to know or do, the Lord will take care of the matter.
I know she spoke to him several times. What is your point, that he didn't fall into line with her way of thinking, and so something is "wrong" with him?
...not "my way of thinking," but God's Word.
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The fact that she spoke with him several times doesn't give her justification to badmouth him in front of others.
...I didn't "badmouth" him.
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Although, in reading her post, it sounds like her pastor isn't the only one she has a problem with:
"Sisters" in quotes because, since they support the pastor, they cannot possibly be saved - cannot be "true" Christians?
...you "assume" you KNOW what I meant by placing quotation marks around the word "sisters"...you assume wrong. I put the word "sisters" in quotation marks to show that they weren't actually my "NATURAL" sisters, but that they were my "spiritual" sisters, and by the way, we are very close, and even the one who went to my pastor...her and I still fellowship in love together, and even moreso than ever!!...However, I doubt the placement of my "quotation marks" is your real reason for your attack on me...but it doesn't matter. I don't expect everyone to understand...nor does the Lord...he says in His Word that I will be persecuted by many...so I accept it. My focus is on Him, and His will for my life, not on those that come against me.
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How has her pastor "trespassed," or sinned against her? I must have missed that part - unless you feel that the Pastor should not follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, and follow Verna, instead?
...unfortunately, you have "missed" more than just "that" part.
Why do you feel the Holy Spirit cannot tell him what He wants him to know? Why on earth would the Holy Spirit use you as an intermediary in such matters?
Being a pastor, the man should be communing regularly with the Lord. If there is anything He wants your pastor to know, the Lord is quite capable of telling it to him, without your assistance.
The fact that you are going to your pastor, believing you are speaking as God's voice, is scary. Instead of going to your pastor and telling him these things, ask the Lord to lay it on his heart. If it's really something the Lord wants him to know or do, the Lord will take care of the matter.
Oh, o.k., now I see where our "gap" in communication is......I began with what my pastor said to me in our conversation together in his office, which was, "If I hear this one more time, I am going to have ask you to leave the church." I've never been told to leave a church...ever...and my pastor has never felt he needed to say this to me ever before, because up until just a few months ago, I hadn't received the knowledge of the truth...so I wasn't a "threat" to him as he believes that I am now...he isn't receiving what the Holy Spirit has given to me to share with him...and I have gone to him privately 3 times...and I put together a file of my studies, and gave it to him hoping he would ask me to come and talk with him about it...and for over 3 months I waited for his invitation, but I never received one.
On that particular Sunday afternoon, when I was fellowshipping with 5 of my closest sisters in Christ...I was asked for a response to their statements about our pastors' "wonderful teaching abilities," (in their opinion.) I began with explaining to them about the false teachers of Modern Christianity today, and I ended in stating that our pastor, (who I love and treat with great respect when speaking with him), was in grave error of being one of these teachers. I couldn't lie...just to keep peace...this was a door that had been opened to me to step through...and I knew then, as I do now, that I am in the will of God...and in His will is where I choose to be...no matter what the cost...Scripture tells us...the more knowledge...the more sorrow that comes with it...and I am prepared to suffer for Him, even if it means I loose the relationships that I have come to cherish.
I haven't left, because the Holy Spirit hasn't made that happen by the pastor telling me to leave...nor do I sense I should go...yet...I will wait upon the Lord, and I won't go before Him, maybe He will still use me there, in their midst...and so far, He has done a perfect job at working things out the way He wills them to work out. When I am to leave, I will know, and I will go...peaceably...knowing I did good in the sight of God. Pleasing Him is what I want to do...and what pleases Him...more than likely will not please our flesh...but He loves the sweet aroma of burning flesh.
In Christ's love,
Verna.
Verna,
To me it seems that you have changed and while you can point out your views to the pastor, if the pastor does not want to receive what you are saying he does not have to change his views to agree with yours.
How would you feel if you were in charge of something whether it be a church, house, business etc and one of the people who had been quite happy with the situation suddenly started to talk behind your back, oppose your views and say they did not agree with you - would you think it is reasonable that they expect you to change to fit in with them ....... or would you say "if I hear this one more time .........."
I think that going to the pastor with your change of views was ok, stating your new beliefs to others was ok - the one that would be questionable/not ok is if you had talked about the pastor behind his back, now that the pastor has made it clear that he does not want to hear the truth as you see it and would like you to leave if you cause friction in his church ...... just MO is that it is time for you to move on.
Verna,
To me it seems that you have changed and while you can point out your views to the pastor, if the pastor does not want to receive what you are saying he does not have to change his views to agree with yours.
...true...I only had a seed to plant...and water. I've done what was required of me to do...now I wait upon the Lord.
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How would you feel if you were in charge of something whether it be a church, house, business etc and one of the people who had been quite happy with the situation suddenly started to talk behind your back, oppose your views and say they did not agree with you - would you think it is reasonable that they expect you to change to fit in with them ....... or would you say "if I hear this one more time .........."
In the "natural" world, you are quite correct...but in the "spiritual" world, human "reason" is not an excuse for me to go against God's will in what He commissioned me to do.
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I think that going to the pastor with your change of views was ok, stating your new beliefs to others was ok - the one that would be questionable/not ok is if you had talked about the pastor behind his back, now that the pastor has made it clear that he does not want to hear the truth as you see it and would like you to leave if you cause friction in his church ...... just MO is that it is time for you to move on.
...it's a "process" meerkat...receiving knowledge is a "process," it takes time from the moment you plant the seed, till the time that it begins to grow, if, in fact, it has fallen on "good ground"...and the increase is a gift from God alone. I haven't been asked to leave...when God sees it is time for me to go...I'll know...and I'll go in peace.
I agree with you it is a process, our learning also is a process ....
I have sort of been where you are now coming across what I view as/know as truth, wanting to be part of a church for fellowship, then finding that organised church/religion has set beliefs/doctrines and are looking for the messengers of satan sowing seeds of discord, feeling the pull of wanting to spread truth, and concern for good people who have been indoctrinated and accepting that we can share the truth but it is not up to us to force that truth onto someone who does not want to accept it.
I am not disagreeing with you ......... something that I had thought about was if the mystery babylon is organised christianity (with so many different denominations/sects/factions/beliefs it is not hard to imagine that) that seems to be quite popular, Jesus say "come out of her my people" NOT stay and try to transform her.
Christians are to be witnesses.... keep the commandments of GOD
I think that people thought/assumed that your post was about you tryng to force the pastor to your point of view and/or are aligning the pastor behind his back.
That is all you can do
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I haven't been asked to leave...when God sees it is time for me to go...I'll know...and I'll go in peace.
...true...I only had a seed to plant...and water. I've done what was required of me to do...now I wait upon the Lord.
In the "natural" world, you are quite correct...but in the "spiritual" world, human "reason" is not an excuse for me to go against God's will in what He commissioned me to do.
...it's a "process" meerkat...receiving knowledge is a "process," it takes time from the moment you plant the seed, till the time that it begins to grow, if, in fact, it has fallen on "good ground"...and the increase is a gift from God alone. I haven't been asked to leave...when God sees it is time for me to go...I'll know...and I'll go in peace.
In Christ's love,
Verna.
Amen.....Verna!
1Cor.2:13-16
These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches comparing spiritual with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 06-18-2009 at 03:51 PM..
Reason: add scripture
...feeling the pull of wanting to spread truth, and concern for good people who have been indoctrinated and accepting that we can share the truth but it is not up to us to force that truth onto someone who does not want to accept it.
My heart's desire is to sread/share truth, by no means would I force it upon anyone...that isn't God's way. I know that God IS Who opens blind eyes, and gives hearing to the "deaf."
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I am not disagreeing with you ......... something that I had thought about was if the mystery babylon is organised christianity (with so many different denominations/sects/factions/beliefs it is not hard to imagine that) Jesus say "come out of her my people" NOT stay and try to transform her.
We can see today, all around us, more than ever before, how Satan is, and has always been the father of lies...deceiving the children of God. In these, the last days, we can see so clearly...modern christianity's false teachers leading the children of God to their destruction.
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Christians are to be witnesses.... keep the commandments of GOD
Amen meerkat...God bless you!...and this includes the commandment to keep His holy day, the Sabbath, holy unto Him.
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I think that people thought/assumed that your post was about you tryng to force the pastor to your point of view and/or are aligning the pastor behind his back.
I realize this, and no, I'm not going behind him saying anything that I haven't already said to him personally, a number of times.
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Originally Posted by Verna
I haven't been asked to leave...when God sees it is time for me to go...I'll know...and I'll go in peace.
How has her pastor "trespassed," or sinned against her? I must have missed that part - unless you feel that the Pastor should not follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, and follow Verna, instead?
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I would say that telling Verna that she can continue to commit sin and still have eternal life is more than trespassing it is close to spiritual murder.
What makes you think the Pastor is lead by the Holy Spirit?
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Does the Pastor keep the ten commandments? Ask him - I am sure Verna would give you his e-mail.
HK
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
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...I began with what my pastor said to me in our conversation together in his office, which was, "If I hear this one more time, I am going to have ask you to leave the church." I've never been told to leave a church...ever...and my pastor has never felt he needed to say this to me ever before, because up until just a few months ago, I hadn't received the knowledge of the truth...so I wasn't a "threat" to him as he believes that I am now...he isn't receiving what the Holy Spirit has given to me to share with him...and I have gone to him privately 3 times...and I put together a file of my studies, and gave it to him hoping he would ask me to come and talk with him about it...and for over 3 months I waited for his invitation, but I never received one.
