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This is the first resurrection for believers and will take place at the coming again of our Lord. There is also the resurrection for judgement, the sheep and goats [neither of whom are the church incidently] the righteous sheep will inherit the reward and the unrighteous goats will be cursed to everlasting punishment. The same picture is shown at the great white throne judgement which takes place after the rapture "and so shall we [the saints] ever be with the Lord" so this judgement also is between those who have done good and the wicked. This is a much wider mercy than is generally held by evangelicals but fully supported by scripture. Never-the-less there will be those whose names are not written in the Lambs book of life. You just can't take those scriptures out of the bible.
Now I have a great deal of trouble with those who say believe or be damned, no-where do I see a commission to say so, but I do not have a problem with saying the wicked will be turned into hell, why should they not? the world is full of all kinds of monstrosities. But let God be the judge of who they are, He will judge with equity, and let each man know in himself if he is wicked or not.
It's obvious my friend that your heart is more open, than some people on this forum, to see the truth of Love (aka God). I also suggest, since you seem to be open minded, to check out the meaning of "eternal punishment" as you quoted it. The actual words that were spoken by Jesus, as recorded in the original Greek, were "aionios kolasis." Study out those words and find the more accurate translation (as opposed to "eternal punishment").
If you'd like, I'd be glad to give you some links to help you in your study.
How can the murderer stop being a murderer unless He hears the truth that God is not imputing his sin against him.
I was forgiven 2000 years ago i came into the knowledge of it 25 years ago.
You can deny this scripture as much as you want but it will not wash.
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Once again but to this very moment murderers do not stop being murderers so this cannot be a universal imputation, we have seen people who go on a killing spree, their last act is self murder when they kill themselves. You have discovered that God has not imputed to you your sin, [for arguments sake] suppose you were a murderer, well when you discovered the truth you recieved the same, you certainly did not continue with murder did you? [looks over her shoulder] you recieved His righteousness which was imputed to you.
I don't have any problem with standing before a bunch and saying "look Jesus has made reconciliation for you-come now and be reconciled" some will, some won't and it has been that way since the days of Cain and Abel, you see it when Jesus preached, you see it when Peter preached or Paul. But it seems to me some preachers take this as a personal affront and start fulminating and cursing those who will not come-that is what is wrong. no, no, instead go again tomorrow, preach again, maybe they will come. Be like Paul when Alexander the coppersmith did him much harm, pray for him that he might find mercy on that day. Take the anger and spite out of the gospel, that came in at the reformation when each side cursed the other, it does not blong with the gospel.
But in preaching be earnest like Paul to warn every man and admonish even with tears, who can find fault with that?
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Once again but to this very moment murderers do not stop being murderers so this cannot be a universal imputation, we have seen people who go on a killing spree, their last act is self murder when they kill themselves. You have discovered that God has not imputed to you your sin, [for arguments sake] suppose you were a murderer, well when you discovered the truth you recieved the same, you certainly did not continue with murder did you? [looks over her shoulder] you recieved His righteousness which was imputed to you.
I don't have any problem with standing before a bunch and saying "look Jesus has made reconciliation for you-come now and be reconciled" some will, some won't and it has been that way since the days of Cain and Abel, you see it when Jesus preached, you see it when Peter preached or Paul. But it seems to me some preachers take this as a personal affront and start fulminating and cursing those who will not come-that is what is wrong. no, no, instead go again tomorrow, preach again, maybe they will come. Be like Paul when Alexander the coppersmith did him much harm, pray for him that he might find mercy on that day. Take the anger and spite out of the gospel, that came in at the reformation when each side cursed the other, it does not blong with the gospel.
But in preaching be earnest like Paul to warn every man and admonish even with tears, who can find fault with that?
Well what are we going to do with this verse of scripture
Col 1 : 20
20 and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.
Well what are we going to do with this verse of scripture
Col 1 : 20
20 and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.
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But alas not under the earth. And I do not understand things to be people. This world came under a usurped power and the devil still is the god of this world. But he has been defeated, Jesus has overcome the world and soon His victory will be manifest to all.
Whatever is under the earth is upon/on the earth, The Totton Linnet. The creation is to be delivered (Romans 8) What things besides people, for example, would need to be reconciled to God? What does reconcile mean? God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-26-2009 at 03:03 PM..
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But alas not under the earth. And I do not understand things to be people. This world came under a usurped power and the devil still is the god of this world. But he has been defeated, Jesus has overcome the world and soon His victory will be manifest to all.
Just to add to Shana's response , yes His victory will be made manifest through the manifestation of the sons of God .
He who sows the good seed is the Son of man, the field is the world and the good seeds means the sons of the kingdom, the weeds are the sons of the evil one and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age and the reapers are the angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evil doers and throw them into the furnace of fire, there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He [or she] who has ears, let him [her] hear.
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This is the reconciliation of all things and the manifestation of the sons of God. The bible teaches no other thing.
The reconciliation of all things is that the it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. He accomplishes His good pleasure. Whatever He purposes to do, He does. Jesus will not fail in His mission to be the Savior of the world. God will have all to be saved and He will accomplish this. All are to be reunited in Jesus Christ, who has been made heir of all. The creation is to be delivered and changed into the freedom of the glory of the sons of God. God bless.
He who sows the good seed is the Son of man, the field is the world and the good seeds means the sons of the kingdom, the weeds are the sons of the evil one and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age and the reapers are the angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evil doers and throw them into the furnace of fire, there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He [or she] who has ears, let him [her] hear.
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This is the reconciliation of all things and the manifestation of the sons of God. The bible teaches no other thing.
The reconciliation of all things is that the it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. He accomplishes His good pleasure. Whatever He purposes to do, He does. Jesus will not fail in His mission to be the Savior of the world. God will have all to be saved and He will accomplish this. All are to be reunited in Jesus Christ, who has been made heir of all. The creation is to be delivered and changed into the freedom of the glory of the sons of God. God bless.
I have heard this before. It is the message preached since the beginning, and is still being preached today....
The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.' "
The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Really, isn't that what you all are preaching? Was the serpent NOT lying now?
When people ask me why I left this doctrine that teaches mankind will forever be saved from their wickedness, without ANY form of repentance whatsoever, because they ARE wicked, then what should we make of this doctrine. It does not matter how many spankings they receive in the next 'age', or punishments as you all call them, as wicked is as wicked does. You will always know them by their fruits. A bad tree cannot produce good fruit, nor can a good tree produce bad fruit. UR teaches that a bad tree will 'eventually' produce good fruit, when it is not what the Word teaches.
We always must take the Word at face value, until the Spirit guides us into deeper Truths regarding passages and theologies. We should always be ready for reproach, not unlike a Berean searching out scriptues to confirm whether or not a new revelation is Truth. This is how I left UR. It was revealed that a person who claimed the Blood of the Lamb in this life for salvation, for forgiveness, and for righteousness,,,and then left the faith, and/or continued as a 'carnal Christian', meaning they lived without repentance,,,then how would or could the Father forgive such a horrific thing?
You WILL know them by their fruits. Which means what exactly? It means the fruit they bear,,,the lives they lead,,the testimony they represent based upon their faith,,,is what shows the World, and ALL of the Heavens,,,what sort of manner of heart this person has.
Does it represent the Living King? Does it represent a blameless PREPARED Bride-to-be?
I am not saying either that anyone will go to eternal hell, for I do not believe that hell, the lake of fire, or even the grave(physical) is eternal. I do believe that there is a spiritual grave, that will just end one day, and those who have profaned the Son, will be forever and EVER gone. DEAD.
So should we be careful how we act, talk, walk, work, love? Yes!! The books shall be opened one day, and ALL will account for what they have done. So be nice to one another, love one another,,and above all else,,,represent your KING in a way that is worthy out of your LOVE for Him.
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Good seed bad seed
