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" Because if God purposely creates people, without their choosing, knowing they will go to Hell and be tormented for eternity, he is not loving, but a sick and cruel individual. Infinitely cruel at that. "
What a terrible accusation to make towards God! I would be "quaking in my boots" to even harbor such a thought towards the creator of all!
God has endured mankind's wickedness for all the years since the creation of them. As for Him knowing how wicked they would be from before creation...apparently He considers that the good that the righteous do out weighs the evil of the unbeliever.
Just because 'we' humans think we are so deserving of His ignoring our evil ways, He does not think that way. His thoughts are so much farther above ours there is no way we can comprehend them. We are still like babes in the womb.
Mankind not only consider that they are such wonderful creatures, now they are preaching that all four-legged creatures are also!
The proud thoughts we have towards ourselves is not from God. We are a mere creation...we are not gods. Yes, we did not ask to be created ( neither did our children ask to be born), but here we are, and there He is !!! We must accept that.
I do not attempt to understand the place that the wicked are to be sent to. All I know is that it will not be what we are hoping for. We are hoping for a place even more wonderful than this earth. Frankly, I have often thought that parts of my present life are similar to living in 'hell'. and perhaps the eternal home of the wicked will be no worse than that. A good many people love their present life, and can hardly bear to think of leaving it. I have never felt that way.
Perhaps the discriptions in the scriptures are meant to cause all to desire to be in the better place. I do not believe we are able to comprehend either place.
As for myself, I love God, and all the blessings that come from him, despite all the suffering that I have had, and will continue to have, on this earth. I am very thankful for all His blessings. I am very thankful that He sent His Son so that I could be cleansed from my former way of life. I have never had a high opinion of myself, and I still don't . As Paul said "such a worm as I" !!!! I am just one small pebble on the beach. I do not see life revolving around me. I see life revolving around the almighty God!
Ephesian chapter 2 verse 8-10 does not correspond to your interpretation
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Oh pcamps! You've been doing better, but...
It is not works to submit or to believe. True, they are not easy at times. Read Ephesians again. These people were claiming they had faith based upon all the wonderful things they were doing in the name of the Lord. US and hypercalvinists think that any brainwave activity must mean works is present...
The problem is that your hypothetical assumes the impossible.
I didn`t say it was possible or impossible, it was just a hypothetical question...geeze. But, your refusal to answer speaks loud enough. I have your answer. I rest my case.
Then you will be held accountable for preaching a false gospel. You will be held accountable for proclaiming to the masses that God will torture and unmercifully brutalize most every human being that has ever lived. When someone turned away from God because of the brutallity with which you painted God with, then you will answer to God for that. When the truth is finally known to all and it is revealed that you actually said these things about the creator then you must give account. You will not be able to say, you had no idea. The truth has been giving to you time and again.
It is an awful thing to fall into the wrath of God.
Good point.
How can you be held accountable, when all religions claim to be the true one?
If God didn't want people to follow the wrong one, he should have annihilated those religions.
'
You can't be held responsible when you're born in Western culture and you're Christian, but if you're born in the Middle East, you are Muslim.
How can you be held accountable, when all religions claim to be the true one?
If God didn't want people to follow the wrong one, he should have annihilated those religions.
'
You can't be held responsible when you're born in Western culture and you're Christian, but if you're born in the Middle East, you are Muslim.
The question was asked about believers. Those that believe the bible teaches eternal torture.
" Because if God purposely creates people, without their choosing, knowing they will go to Hell and be tormented for eternity, he is not loving, but a sick and cruel individual. Infinitely cruel at that. "
What a terrible accusation to make towards God! I would be "quaking in my boots" to even harbor such a thought towards the creator of all!
God has endured mankind's wickedness for all the years since the creation of them. As for Him knowing how wicked they would be from before creation...apparently He considers that the good that the righteous do out weighs the evil of the unbeliever.
Just because 'we' humans think we are so deserving of His ignoring our evil ways, He does not think that way. His thoughts are so much farther above ours there is no way we can comprehend them. We are still like babes in the womb.
Mankind not only consider that they are such wonderful creatures, now they are preaching that all four-legged creatures are also!
The proud thoughts we have towards ourselves is not from God. We are a mere creation...we are not gods. Yes, we did not ask to be created ( neither did our children ask to be born), but here we are, and there He is !!! We must accept that.
I do not attempt to understand the place that the wicked are to be sent to. All I know is that it will not be what we are hoping for. We are hoping for a place even more wonderful than this earth. Frankly, I have often thought that parts of my present life are similar to living in 'hell'. and perhaps the eternal home of the wicked will be no worse than that. A good many people love their present life, and can hardly bear to think of leaving it. I have never felt that way.
Perhaps the discriptions in the scriptures are meant to cause all to desire to be in the better place. I do not believe we are able to comprehend either place.
As for myself, I love God, and all the blessings that come from him, despite all the suffering that I have had, and will continue to have, on this earth. I am very thankful for all His blessings. I am very thankful that He sent His Son so that I could be cleansed from my former way of life. I have never had a high opinion of myself, and I still don't . As Paul said "such a worm as I" !!!! I am just one small pebble on the beach. I do not see life revolving around me. I see life revolving around the almighty God!
Marian
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying man does not need to be disciplined for our wrongs. But to suggest that we need endless punishment for our sins is ridiculous. And no, I do not worry about my "accusations" against God, for they are not against God, but a perverted image of the true Heavenly Father. God loves mankind. He loves them more than I do, more than any human ever has, and to suggest that he could torture any human being forever is completely heartless. I couldn't do it. And God certainly couldn't. I could discipline. And God certainly will, conforming each human being unto the likeness of his Son.
The problem is that your hypothetical assumes the impossible. No doctor has ever been able to say with 100% accuracy what you are suggesting. (Some may claim it...but they wouldn't stake their lives on it). Likewise, Your hypothetical assumes another impossibility, that God would know, but that He has not provided for a means.
I am NOT saying "God created people knowing he would torture just about every one of them". I am saying, God loves you so much that he was not about to force feed himself on you. Yes, you (and I) desparately need a savior, but he is that savior, not by force; by love. The question is do you accept him. (I presume US or ET your answer is probably yes, I am just making the point).
Maybe the real question is, if God made it so simple that all we had to do was believe and let him be Lord of our lives, then why wouldn't everybody just do that. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. That is the key to the hypothetical question, when posed realistically. Why, if there is an available "cure" would anyone not accept it as opposed to denying that "cure" and suffering forever?
Actually, it's a really easy question to answer, and the reason it is hypothetical: is because of course it's not to be taken as positively possible.
Would you have a child if you knew your child would suffer in extreme agonizing pain for every second of its life?
There. In this hypothetical situation, you KNOW what will befall your child if you choose to have a child. Now: would you choose to have this child?
What if ... What if ... well one group will find out they were wrong and will have to admit it. It will out come out in the wash.
What if the catholics are right and the only true church is the catholic church? What if the Mormons are right? or Jehovah's witnesses? Or what if the satanists are right for that matter?
If i made decisions based on fears of "what ifs" and not on rational deduction and guidance from my own conscience as it is inspired by God ... I would be easily swayed to believe any charlatan willing to extort lack of understanding. I would be persuaded of superstitions.
I am sorry that a few have chosen to continue their tirade against those that they do not agree with, on this thread. That is not what My OP was about.
Please get back to the question and save your lengthy arguments for elsewhere.
All I was asking is for each of us to consider the consequences of our lives and teachings if we are , indeed, incorrect in what we believe and teach.
How can you be held accountable, when all religions claim to be the true one?
If God didn't want people to follow the wrong one, he should have annihilated those religions.
'
You can't be held responsible when you're born in Western culture and you're Christian, but if you're born in the Middle East, you are Muslim.
You believe God should have annihilated those religions, but scripture demonstrates many times over there will be many false beliefs taught. Why second-guess God? How do you know he should have done it some other way?
Jesus was born in the Middle East. He is not Muslim.
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. But, your refusal to answer speaks loud enough. I have your answer. I rest my case.
