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Old 07-22-2009, 07:33 AM
 
Location: NC
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We will have new bodies because it is at the resurrection when we are made alive. The resurrection of the body is necessary for us to live again and to become immortal. God bless.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:35 AM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
LOL.....P.S. If anios doesn't mean eternal then we Christians do not live eternally with the Father either.
Nope, nope, Fundy, this has been shown to you time and time again. We become immortal at the resurrection, when we are raised to the life by the Lord. God bless.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:37 AM
 
Location: NC
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But to share again

Aionios means of or relating to an age or the ages. It is the adjective of aion. Therefore, God who created the ages is called the aionion or eonian God in some translations, which means that He is the God of the ages. He is working out His plan for the creation during the ages. God transcends the ages, yet He is working, manifesting, , operating as this specifically relates to the ages. His glory, His righteousness, His kingdom, His wisdom are clearly manifested through the ages, during these periods of time in which He is working out His purpose for the creation. When the ages have run their course, when they have ended, God of the ages, who transcends the ages, will be all in all. Aionios life and aionios correction are life and correction which are related to the ages. Aionios life refers to the type of or quality of life that believers have during this age and in the age to come. It is the life of knowing God.


John 17:3and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send -- Jesus Christ;(YLT)

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and aionios-life. (YLT)


1 John 3
13Do not wonder, my brethren, if the world doth hate you; 14we -- we have known that we have passed out of the death to the life, because we love the brethren; he who is not loving the brother doth remain in the death. 15Every one who is hating his brother -- a man-killer he is, and ye have known that no man-killer hath life age-during in him remaining (YLT)

1 John 5:11-12
And this is the testimony: God has given us aionios-life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.(YLT)

Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (YLT)

Believers have the life of the ages, life during the ages, and this life consists of knowing God, the only True God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. It is the highest life that the Creator has given to the creature.

Life (Zoe) =the principle of life in the spirit and soul; expressing all of the highest and best which Christ is and which He gives to the saints (believers) (Key Word Study Bible)

We have a relationship with God today, in this age and in the age to come. We can know the Creator today. We are walking with God by faith, have been forgiven, have been set free from the slavery to sin, can be overcomers, will rule and reign with Him, have His Holy Spirit dwelling within us, have His power to live right today, are being transformed into His image, and we are to be lights in the world. We are the people of God. Believers have passed out of death and into life because we have aionios life, the life of knowing God, the life of the ages. We are no longer lost, slaves to sin, and we can walk with God victoriously in this age and in the age to come. This the aionios life.

**Immortality is not the same as aionios life. Believers who have aionios life, have been promised immortality.**

1 Corinthians 15:
50 50And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption; 51lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed; 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible (aphthartoi), and we -- we shall be changed: 53for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption (aphtharsian), and this mortal to put on immortality; (athanasian) 54and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; 55where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'

Please check the contexts. God bless.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:37 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,437,896 times
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Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Nope, nope, Fundy, this has been shown to you time and time again. We become immortal when we are raised to the life by the Lord. God bless.
LOL....well that explains everything, it was shown to me time and time again. Shana you could show me a dog tell me it's a duck a million times over...guess what...IT'S STILL A DOG!

P.S. We become immortal when we receive Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells in us. We went from death into life just as Lazarus was called from death into life by Jesus.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:43 AM
 
Location: NC
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Hi, Lazarus returned to life, Fundy, when the Lord raised him. We become immortal when this mortality puts on immortality.


1 Corinthians 15:
50 50And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption; 51lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed; 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible (aphthartoi), and we -- we shall be changed: 53for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption (aphtharsian), and this mortal to put on immortality; (athanasian) 54and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; 55where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'

Immortality is a promise, but we do not have it until the Lord raises us. We will be in the grave, i.e. dead. This is why is referred to as "sleep". Death is not a permanent condition. God bless.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:46 AM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
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After 13 years of Catholic school, Kindergarten through 12th grade, and having the subject "religion" daily, going to mass every Friday, we left school with very "little" biblical principles.

We NEVER studied from the bible, but rather books published by the Vatican. Adam and Eve, Noah, Moses and Jesus and the Apostles were the only people we studied . . .

The Catholic Church and School taught we'd go straight to heaven or hell the moment we die.

They also taught communion was at the point the priest blessed it, the body of Christ, Saints were real, the Pope had the authority to represent Jesus on earth, we needed a priest of forgive sins.

All we really need to look at is scripture.

I am searching yearnestly to discern the bible with truth, not based on "religion", or false teaching.

All the fence posts neeed to line up.

From our study, and praying about it, I believe many many many scriptures revealed tha twe are in the "grave" until the resurrection. I don't like it either, but that's where the majority of scriptures describe it.

In a blink though, we will be resurrected, we have no knowledge of being dead.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:48 AM
 
Location: NC
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In a blink though, we will be resurrected, we have no knowledge of being dead.
Right, lifesigns. The dead do not know that they are dead God bless.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:56 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,437,896 times
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Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi, Lazarus returned to life, Fundy, when the Lord raised him. We become immortal when this mortality puts on immortality.
Shana this verse is speaking of the rapture. A rapture you and I may never see in our life time. We receive Christ, we enter life and then later given a new body.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:01 AM
 
Location: NC
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Hi Fundy, this passage tells us what will happen when death is swallowed up. God bless.

and the dead shall be raised incorruptible (aphthartoi)

The point being made is that aionios is not referring to immortality. Other words in the scriptures refer to immortality, incorruption, incorruptible (aphthartoi, aphtharsian, athanasian) .

Corinthians 15:
50 50And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption; 51lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed; 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible (aphthartoi), and we -- we shall be changed: 53for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption (aphtharsian), and this mortal to put on immortality; (athanasian) 54and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; 55where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-22-2009 at 08:09 AM..
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 877,313 times
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I agree with you LIfesigns. I too was taught and WANTED with all my heart to believe we would instantly be with Jesus when we die. I finally read some articles that present the idea that we are DEAD until the resurrection and THE MANY verses, such as you quoted, that say the opposite. I argued in my inner person that the OT verses were superceded when Christ was risen and that NOW our spirit goes. But I honestly looked aty Paul's passages and it does not seem like he is saying we are alive, otherwise why would he have to comfort his readers with 'they are sleeping' and with the hope of hte resurrection. It would be much more encouraging to say that when WE die we will be with Jesus and our loved ones and who cares about our physical bodies if we can think, reason, move around and enjoy God and each other without one?

The verse where Paul says he would rather be absent from the body is most times misquoted. And a good article on that passage is found here:

www.savior-of-all.com/immortal.html

Here is another good criticism of all the passages used to support consciousness upon death before resurrection:

www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=the-Dead

I can't find the one I feel has the best explanation for the Pauline passage. IF I find it later I'll post it.

I just can't get past the question of why Paul didn't make it quite plain that we were enjoyin life with Jesus but instead, as Jesus did, keeps referring to death as sleep and saying the hope of Christians was being resurrected and getting our new immortal bodies.
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