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Wonderful*** Point taken and received. True. Just like in Galatians 5, the kingdom of heaven which was spoken about was not referring to eternity but rather that a realm on earth. PERFECT
Fundamental Christianity has set itself up so it doesn't no how to react to a different belief or to those who reject it's message . Though it claims to be New Covenant in it's belief , the reality is it talks like the Old Covenant . Forever in constant dread of a God who will come down heavy on them if it thinks beyond the box of what it's been taught .
Can you imagine if in the Old Covenant days someone had the balls to say what Jesus said to the men who threw the woman caught in adultery at His feet(He who is without sin let him cast the first stone) . I will tell you for certain Heaven would have been all over the person who said it.
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 1.
MATTHEW 5:20 For I say unto you, except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, YE SHALL IN NO CASE ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
You shall in NO case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
2.
MATTHEW 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, NEITHER WILL YOUR FATHER FORGIVE YOUR TRESPASSES.
Your Father will NOT FORGIVE your trespasses.
3.
MATTHEW 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW be there that FIND IT.
FEW will find the narrow way that leads to life. NOT ALL!!
4.
MATTHEW 7:21 NOT every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
ONLY he that does the will of the Father shall enter the kingdom of heaven.
5.
MATTHEW 18:3 Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall NOT enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Unless you are converted from sins as like a little child, YOU SHALL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
6.
MATTHEW 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.
Jesus gave his life as a ransom forMANY.NOT ALL
7.
JOHN 3:3 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he CANNOT see the kingdom of God.
If a man is not born again he CANNOT see the kingdom of God.
8.
JOHN 3:5 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of God.
Why would Jesus proclaim that so many people will not enter into heaven??? Yet universalists say that they are all saved!!!
Either Jesus is a liar, or universalists are ALL wrong!!! I prefer to think it's the latter.
GOD BLESS!!! ALMOST2L8
I guess its just to much to think that Christianity is just another religion who happens to think they have the only truth...... imagine all the others who think the same thing..... Its all up to what you believe....
I'm just scratching my head because I feel just as strongly about my belief as you do yours but I don't happen to believe that you are lost or going to hell because you don't believe what I do....
Of course you will now believe I am doomed to hell in a handbasket even though I believe my bible other wise known as the Tanakh which you xians took from the Jewish people and changed it to suit your beliefs. So maybe you ought to think about that.
As for the new testament I would suppose that once again now its not just all non - xians you are condemning its anyone who doesn't have your brand of xianity. I find it hard to believe that God will turn his head away from anyone who has faith in him, no matter. But I guess that is why I walked away from xianity so long ago. I have never looked back. Your book as mine was inspired by God and written down by many men. So it is not literal or infallible.
The reality is no one knows until they die, no matter what your book says........
The Messiah came and Israel did not recognize Him. Luke 19:44 says ''...because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
Daniel 9:24-27 gives the time frame in which the Messiah had to come. After that time, He could not come or the prophecy would be false.
It was Paul (a very learned Jew) who wrote most of the New Testament epistles. And Paul had been Saul, who had been a zealous persecuter of the Church. But when he saw the resurrected Christ He realized his error and became the Apostle to whom more church age doctrinal revelation had been given then any of the other Apostles. Christians did not change the Bible.
Regarding the Old Testament, the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the Old Testament that we have today is the same as what existed back in those ancient times.
And the Bible is the literal and infallible word of God in the original languages.
It is not faith in God that saves. It is faith in the specific member of the Trinity--Jesus Christ--that saves.
Why do you guys push your beliefs so hard onto people?? Obviously, not to save people because your beliefs are that we are all already there. Well good luck on finding the real truth!!!
Wow, you sure got defensive! This is what xians do when they have to actually with an open mind consider another viewpoint..... He just may be correct.
What can always be argued are our beliefs. That’s why we argue it constantly. We all believe that our truth is truth without studying the character of God to gain knowledge in His truth. Most of the time it's man teaching man and not God teaching man therefore we end up with thousands upon thousands of different churches and belief systems. Even now, the Baptist is separating from Baptist and non-denominations are separating from other non-denominations. Funny, we all think we have truth. We teach 10,000 ways to heaven and 10,000 ways to hell. No wonder we are stagnated and stumped. The world is moving with wickedness and all along we’re supposed to be the ones to have truth. Unfortunately, we are too complacent in deciding the rules of hell. We need to come to the understanding that Jesus saved the WORLD. He redeemed us from what Adam did. Therefore, He brought us back to GOD. Now, Jesus says we have to be born again through His Spirit so that we can be saved from ourselves. Adam was made in the likeness of God; we were made in the likeness of the fallen man. The lust of the flesh will be with us always. Being born again through the Holy Spirit is sooooo important to the believer. He is our helper our teacher our conscience to help us not fall into temptation or sin. The kingdom of heaven is a realm that we are to obtain by allowing the Holy Spirit to work through us. This is to LIVE IN THE SPIRIT. BE BLESSED
It would mean they cannot be a citizen otherwise why qualify the statement with "kingdom?" Still doesn't mean they can't step foot on US soil...
My "idea" of the kingdom of heaven is that it is a spiritual place. Jesus corrected His followers erroneous idea of an earthly kingdom many times....yet 1 cor. 15 talks about this idea that the kingdom is a not open to flesh and blood, vs. 47 talks about the first man being of earth and second man being "from" heaven... was Jesus' flesh and blood in heaven then sent into Mary to be born? Therefore it is an "idea" a spiritual state not an actual place..IMO
So you are saying that there is ONE path to your "heaven" and few will find it? Does it really say that? Or is it saying that few will find the path to Jesus' teachings of LIFE?
The word many is not all inclusive nor is it completely exclusive... Just a word... Yet you are using that word as basis for your assumption that Heaven is a literal place that some are excluded from. Using that logic we can also say the 1 cor 15:2 saying "By this gospel you are saved..." means that Jesus didn't save but the gospel did.
BTW- I let my daughter believe in a God that wouldn't send people to burn forever. She doesn't need that burden, and neither did God intend her to. Accept the word of God as a little child does for they are accepting of many! Not as an adult who's heart is hardened. IMHO...
Who are you? I am sooooo blessed in my spirit to see the words of God being edified. I would love to read more. There is only one that could of taught you and I believe we share the same spirit.
Not all will be saved, only those who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, and depend on being covered in His blood, not our own righteousness, for our righteousness is as filthy rags, in His sight.
You shall in NO case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Unless you are converted from sins as like a little child, YOU SHALL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
If a man is not born again he CANNOT see the kingdom of God.
ONLY he that does the will of the Father shall enter the kingdom of heaven.
Your Father will NOT FORGIVE your trespasses.
Each of these is explaining the conditions on entering the kingdom of God. For example, if all are going to be saved, all will have to be born again.
Saying "you have to pass the test to graduate" does not mean some will fail to graduate.
Quote:
FEW will find the narrow way that leads to life. NOT ALL!!
Few there be who are finding it, present tense, not future tense. Check YLT.
Hosea says that the number of the sons of God will be many, many not few.
Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Quote:
Jesus gave his life as a ransom for MANY.NOT ALL
You added the "not all" part yourself. "Many" just means multitudes, not all, not fewer than all.
But the fact is, Jesus did give His life as a ransom for all.
1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time
Quote:
Why would Jesus proclaim that so many people will not enter into heaven???
He didn't.
Last edited by Thy Kingdom Come; 10-22-2009 at 05:32 PM..
Not all will be saved, only those who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, and depend on being covered in His blood, not our own righteousness, for our righteousness is as filthy rags, in His sight.
Question: How do we accept what we do not know? How do we know if God has not revealed it to us by His Spirit to know Jesus in the first place? We as believers are so comfortable since we're not the ones facing eternal flame. We were chosen to know Him. Why not the others? Just a question...not a stab by any sorts. Be blessed
1.
MATTHEW 5:20 For I say unto you, except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, YE SHALL IN NO CASE ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
You shall in NO case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Of course nobody will enter in unless they exceed the righteousness but the great news is that EVERYONE eventually will because Jesus came to destroy SIN - I'm pretty sure He meant ALL sin!
Quote:
2.
MATTHEW 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, NEITHER WILL YOUR FATHER FORGIVE YOUR TRESPASSES.
Your Father will NOT FORGIVE your trespasses.
The parable of the unforgiving servant shows that the unforgiving servant was NOT forgiven but eventually what happened? - he was only tormented TILL (get that) TILL he paid all that was due.
Quote:
3.
MATTHEW 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW be there that FIND IT.
FEW will find the narrow way that leads to life. NOT ALL!!
But the Greek actually says few that are finding it (present tense). Of course there were only few finding it at that time. But eventually ALL shall find it. See the person that preaches Eternal Torment wants us to believe that Few will EVER find it (Future tense) which is contrary to what the verse actually is.
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4.
MATTHEW 7:21 NOT every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
ONLY he that does the will of the Father shall enter the kingdom of heaven.
Goes back to the previous comment. Nobody will enter Heaven except they that do His Will. It is like me saying - nobody will enter the house unless they have clean feet. Well guess what? - as soon as their feet get clean they get to enter the house.
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5.
MATTHEW 18:3 Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall NOT enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Unless you are converted from sins as like a little child, YOU SHALL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
Again, already covered. Everntually all shall be converted and enter.
Quote:
6.
MATTHEW 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.
Jesus gave his life as a ransom forMANY.NOT ALL
The Many is ALL.
Quote:
7.
JOHN 3:3 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he CANNOT see the kingdom of God.
If a man is not born again he CANNOT see the kingdom of God.
Again, all shall EVENTUALLY be born again.
Quote:
8.
JOHN 3:5 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of God.
Why would Jesus proclaim that so many people will not enter into heaven??? Yet universalists say that they are all saved!!!
Either Jesus is a liar, or universalists are ALL wrong!!! I prefer to think it's the latter.
GOD BLESS!!! ALMOST2L8
[/quote]
Let's look at what Jesus is NOT preaching. He is NOT preaching that many are not EVER going to enter Heaven. He is preaching that many are not entering Heaven (present tense).
Let's face - the doctrine of Eternal Torment preaches that God has decided to make a HOME For SINNERS where SIN shall keep its subjects in eternal rebellion against God. Yes SIN Is the KING of HELL for SIN itself gets ETERNAL dominion. That is what ETERNAL Torment preaches. It preaches that Jesus FAILS to eradicate ALL Sin but instead lets the wicked continue in their sin of rebellion for the rest of eternity. Yes - that is what ETERNAL Torment teaches. It teaches that God brought some into the world (knowing the end from the very beginning) for vain reasons. It teaches that Death gets a victory in stealing a potential child from God.
I'm glad God has shown my heart His ALMIGHTY Power and that He has me in the belief that He is going to come and DESTROY every wicked nature that has ever existed and has the POWER to CLEAN us from sin and evil. After all what reward is there if He can't? What power is there in only being able to save the righteous? Can He not save the SINNER - No He can't according to the preachers of Eternal Torment - at least not the greatest sinners - His desire is not for them - according to the Eternal Torment preacher.
Come on does that really make sense to you that God would be that powerless?
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or universalists are ALL wrong!!!
