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Old 09-29-2009, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,998 posts, read 1,607,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Who is "our"?
Paul
"Our" is people who believe like G.T. Stevenson believes, which is that olam and aionios always refer to a limited period of time.
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study

 
Old 09-29-2009, 08:44 PM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 4 days ago)
 
5,936 posts, read 2,955,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
"Our" is people who believe like G.T. Stevenson believes, which is that olam and aionios always refer to a limited period of time.
TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study
So they would be saying that aionios life is a life that is limited - see the problem?

Paul
 
Old 09-29-2009, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,998 posts, read 1,607,167 times
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Default No problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
So they would be saying that aionios life is a life that is limited - see the problem? Paul
No, I don't see a problem at all.
While believers enjoy eonian life, unbelievers will experience kolasis aionian which mean age-during corrective chastisement.
Chapter Eleven

Then at the consummation of the eons, eonian life will end for the believer, and kolasis aionian will end for the unbeliever, and all death will be abolished, including the second death, and everyone will have the life of Christ and God will become All in all.

The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-29-2009 at 09:54 PM.. Reason: rewording
 
Old 09-30-2009, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,998 posts, read 1,607,167 times
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Default Eonian life comes to an end

Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
So they would be saying that aionios life is a life that is limited - see the problem? Paul
The duration of the life of the believer is not threatened by aionion meaning a limited period of time.

Believers do receive aionion life. But if this is all that God promised, there would be no assurance of life beyond the eons. However, at the end of the eons God abolishes death from His universe (I Cor. 15:26). This is accomplished by imparting the resurrection life of Christ to all who have not previously received it. Aionion life assures one of life up to that point. Beyond that, death is impossible. Furthermore believers are made immortal when the Lord returns (I Cor. 15:50-57). When one has been made immortal, death is impossible.

Because of the “eonian” nature of God’s revelation, culminating with the consummation of the ages in 1Corinthians 15, we can see that “eonian life” leads into “eternity” at the end of the ages. Therefore there is no real threat to “eternal life,” even though punishment/correction is not eternal, but only for an age.

There are a number of Greek words that imply eternal but aionios is not one of them.

They are usually translated “indestructible,” “imperishable,” “unfading,” “immortality,” and “incorruptible.” Ro. 1:23; 2:7; 1Cor. 9:25; 15:42, 51-54; He. 7:15,16; 1Pe. 1:3,4; 5:4; 1Ti. 1:17; 6:16; 2Ti. 1:10.

Our hope of immortality does not reside in the word aionios, but in God’s very nature (unfailing love and unlimited power) and promises.

CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 06:37 AM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 4 days ago)
 
5,936 posts, read 2,955,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
The duration of the life of the believer is not threatened by aionion meaning a limited period of time.

Believers do receive aionion life. But if this is all that God promised, there would be no assurance of life beyond the eons. However, at the end of the eons God abolishes death from His universe (I Cor. 15:26). This is accomplished by imparting the resurrection life of Christ to all who have not previously received it. Aionion life assures one of life up to that point. Beyond that, death is impossible. Furthermore believers are made immortal when the Lord returns (I Cor. 15:50-57). When one has been made immortal, death is impossible.

Because of the “eonian” nature of God’s revelation, culminating with the consummation of the ages in 1Corinthians 15, we can see that “eonian life” leads into “eternity” at the end of the ages. Therefore there is no real threat to “eternal life,” even though punishment/correction is not eternal, but only for an age.

There are a number of Greek words that imply eternal but aionios is not one of them.

They are usually translated “indestructible,” “imperishable,” “unfading,” “immortality,” and “incorruptible.” Ro. 1:23; 2:7; 1Cor. 9:25; 15:42, 51-54; He. 7:15,16; 1Pe. 1:3,4; 5:4; 1Ti. 1:17; 6:16; 2Ti. 1:10.

Our hope of immortality does not reside in the word aionios, but in God’s very nature (unfailing love and unlimited power) and promises.

CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
See how your caught in the web here? You agree that aionios is an adjective. Now that adjective is describing the Life. And you say that aionios DESCRIBES a limited duration. Well the Adjective describe Life in many verses therefore, the Life is what is modified in meaning by Aionios. Therefore, your saying the Life is LIMITED. You not treating aionios as an adjective if your saying it doesn't modify the understanding of the Life.

Rodgertutt, you may have missed the many times in this thread where I have stated that I don't believe aionios means eternal. You may not realize that I'm a universalist. But I greatly disagree with many universalists that embrace the Tentmaker documents that wrongly describe the meaning of aionios. Again, for aionios to refer to a limited duration it would mean that the Life DESCRIBED by Aionios is therefore limited. That is just not a meaning that would be applied to the Life that God's Children shall receive.

Paul
 
Old 09-30-2009, 06:46 AM
 
10,683 posts, read 5,172,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I'm saying that Aionios is not referring to an end point at all. Aionios can only refer to the CURRENT age and places its reference upon that age and then applies the meaning of something existing beyond it.

Sure it is an adjective and that adjective is based on aion. The aion spoken of is the CURRENT AION. It doesn't refer to ANY OTHER aion or aions. It only refers to the current aion but that which it is describing is being said to exist beyond that CURRENT aion.


Paul
And what are your proofs for what you wrote above?

How can you know if the eonian chastening of Matthew 25:46 is describing that which is to exist beyond that current aion?

For instance, how can you know for sure that "according to the injunction of the eonion God" (Rom.16:26) is just speaking of Him being the God pertaining to the current eon? How do you know for sure that He is not the God of all the eons, past, present and future?

Now I do believe that "eonian chastening and eonian life" is the chastening and life pertaining to only that 1000 year long eon. This is because that judging takes place at the beginning of the 1000 year eon and that eon will end and a new earth will come after it.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 06:57 AM
 
10,683 posts, read 5,172,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
See how your caught in the web here? You agree that aionios is an adjective. Now that adjective is describing the Life. And you say that aionios DESCRIBES a limited duration. Well the Adjective describe Life in many verses therefore, the Life is what is modified in meaning by Aionios. Therefore, your saying the Life is LIMITED. You not treating aionios as an adjective if your saying it doesn't modify the understanding of the Life.

Rodgertutt, you may have missed the many times in this thread where I have stated that I don't believe aionios means eternal. You may not realize that I'm a universalist. But I greatly disagree with many universalists that embrace the Tentmaker documents that wrongly describe the meaning of aionios. Again, for aionios to refer to a limited duration it would mean that the Life DESCRIBED by Aionios is therefore limited. That is just not a meaning that would be applied to the Life that God's Children shall receive.

Paul
Dear Paul,
I don't see the problem. If a doctor told you you have cancer but said I am giving you 10 years to live (that's a decade), that would mean you have decadian life or life pertaining to the decade. And if he said you are going to put on immortality, we would know that in spite of the decadian life ending you would continue to live, not because you have decadian life but because you have immortality.

I realize my example may suck a little but it is the best I can do this early in the morning.

Eonian chastening cannot possibly get the bad nations to have chastening beyond the 1000 year eon. That eon is going to end.

Likewise the eonian life those good nations will enjoy cannot possibly give them life beyond the 1000 year eon.

For the believer, all eonian life means is life pertaining to the on-coming eons, nothing more and nothing less. They don't live eternally because they get eonian life. They live eternally because they put on immortality.

The eons will end. That which is eonian is that which is pertaining to the eons which will end.

It's really simple. Don't make it hard.

1000 year Eon . . . . . . . . . .New Earth Eon . . . . . . End of the Eons|
Eonian life . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . |Immortality . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . >
 
Old 09-30-2009, 10:45 AM
 
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Hey guys, re: aionios life,

I can see arguments on both sides make some points. I believe aionios life means life pertaining to the eons. Yes eonian life could "end" without harming our true eternal life. That is one way to interpret it.

The other way is as trett and phazelwood do, that is it "continuing on". I also don't see aionios meaning "limited" or "eternal", but simply "pertaining to an eon or eons".

But the real thing we must consider is that scripture itself defines what aionios life is:

John 17:3 Now this is eternal [aionios] life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


Aionios life is simply knowing God.

True believers enjoy this aionios life (knowing God), unbelievers do not (obviously because they don't know God). I believe that is the heart of the matter.

Now we can debate whether it means limited duration, or continuing, or perpetual, or whatever. But the fact is, believers who have aionios life will know God. That is the reward of believing.

John 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal (aionios) life.

God gave His son so that we could know Him! Its about a relationship. Unbelievers don't have it, so they will perish. (Of course they will be restored later and will then know God and gain that relationship). And then when God is all in all, all will know Him.

I think that is the important thing we should focus on in understanding aionios life. John 17:3 is key. JMHO.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,998 posts, read 1,607,167 times
Reputation: 219
Default Not "caught in a web"

Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
See how your caught in the web here? You agree that aionios is an adjective. Now that adjective is describing the Life. And you say that aionios DESCRIBES a limited duration. Well the Adjective describe Life in many verses therefore, the Life is what is modified in meaning by Aionios. Therefore, your saying the Life is LIMITED. You not treating aionios as an adjective if your saying it doesn't modify the understanding of the Life.

Rodgertutt, you may have missed the many times in this thread where I have stated that I don't believe aionios means eternal. You may not realize that I'm a universalist. But I greatly disagree with many universalists that embrace the Tentmaker documents that wrongly describe the meaning of aionios. Again, for aionios to refer to a limited duration it would mean that the Life DESCRIBED by Aionios is therefore limited. That is just not a meaning that would be applied to the Life that God's Children shall receive.

Paul
No, I don't see how I am "caught in a web" Paul.

The eonian (aionion) life of us believers will come to an end.

But that has no bearing on the truth that our life with Jesus will continue forever after the eons, collectively, end, Heb. 9:26 "the end of the eons," (the end of the world KJV's mistranslation), when all death (including the second death which is the lake of fire) has been abolished (1Cor. 15:26), and God becomes All in all (1Cor. 15:28).
God's Plan Of The Ages; The Purpose Of God In This Age; Redemption In Two Parts; As In Adam - So In Christ; Every Man In His Own Order; All Things In Subjection; God All In All
 
Old 09-30-2009, 04:25 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,447,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Problem is they don't. I never said that I don't believe an age ends. In fact it is completely scriptural that your going to find that ages end. Also, it is about the adjective having a greater force it is about the adjective referencing its root. Nothing I have said says that aionios means an unlimited duration and again nothing I have said means that aionios excludes a duration that is endless. After all does anyone really believe that aionios life is referring to life that ends? - not at all. But we know that aionios punishment WILL end. So obviously aionios cannot speak to an endless duration or a limited duration. It doesn't speak to the end point at all only the continuing point in that both the punishment and the life extend beyond this age.

Paul
You said ...

Quote:
After all does anyone really believe that aionios life is referring to life that ends?
Aionios life ends with the ages, because it only refers to the life which everyone shall have in the fullness of times. Only that we(the believers) have it now in the ages, while everyone else will have life but only at the end of the ages. We have the life of knowing God and his Christ now in the ages, thus only believers will have aionios life. The unbelievers do not have and will not have aionios life, or life of knowing God and his Christ in the ages. They will only have life knowing God and his Christ at the culmination of the ages. Instead the unbelievers have aionios kolasis, correction of the ages . And that aionios kolasis will end as well at the culmination of the ages, when they are finally reconciled at last and all judgment is passed. Then they will know life.

Aionios zoe and aionios kolasis only refer to life and correction during the ages. The life after the ages is not aionios, because it is after the culmination of the ages. The life we have during the ages will not end, but the ages themselves will so that what was aionios life in the ages will no longer be aionios, it will just be life.

That is how i understand it.
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