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I guess that would depend on how you describe "physical". Maybe that word is not really relevant to the discussion when you think about it.
The death of the physical body is a physical matter and a spiritual matter because it occurs at the time the spirit body that integrates its myriad intelligent parts permanently (until the resurrection) departs.
Resurrection is also both physical and spiritual because it's the permanent melding of the physical and the spirit bodies.
Yeah, I think that makes sense with what I'm saying. It's definitely not OF THIS world, however it was able to BE in this world, IN this dimension.
I think what I'm trying to say is that perhaps it is physical but not by this world's standards of "physical". It's beyond that...
I appreciate your thoughtfulness. But examine what you are saying. You are now postulating that there are forces that can manifest themselves physically in this reality.
Fine. I don't necessarily have a problem with that.
But know this: This opens the door to every claim of encounters with Grey Aliens, Bigfoot, Mothman, the Virgin Mary, Psychic Healers, Leprechauns, Faeries, Menehune, and hundreds of other cultural creatures of the night.
I'm not sure fundamentalists would like to be in that company.
ok, so I thought I'd post some of my imaginings that I've had in the past. I think it's fun to just let your mind go and wander...
So this is one wild thought I've had:
Sometimes, it's good to just let your brain just wander.
He gave us an imagination for a reason. Maybe he gave me a little too much... lol.
I'm sure some folks will say "oh you're being so childish minded.."
or "how unspiritual!!" or "omg! you heretic!!! how could you say such blasphemous things!!!"
Chill guys. I'm just sharing my imagination.
This isn't meant to be all heavy and serious.
Maybe I should write kid's books.
Kids books are good....
It's ok to wander. Just don't wander to far.
I appreciate your thoughtfulness. But examine what you are saying. You are now postulating that there are forces that can manifest themselves physically in this reality.
Fine. I don't necessarily have a problem with that.
But know this: This opens the door to every claim of encounters with Grey Aliens, Bigfoot, Mothman, the Virgin Mary, Psychic Healers, Leprechauns, Faeries, Menehune, and hundreds of other cultural creatures of the night.
I'm not sure fundamentalists would like to be in that company.
Picture the Great Energy God, and when you are dead, your Little Energy goes back to the Great Energy God... what happens from there is anyone's guess.
Holy Spirit, Collective consciousness, Heaven, can all be substituted in place of "Great Energy God" with your spirit, your consciousness, your soul, body whatever... can all be substituted in place of "Little Energy."
Seriously, I want to know what the pros and cons are here.
Suppose I believe the Resurrection is physical, then what?
I appreciate your thoughtfulness. But examine what you are saying. You are now postulating that there are forces that can manifest themselves physically in this reality.
Fine. I don't necessarily have a problem with that.
But know this: This opens the door to every claim of encounters with Grey Aliens, Bigfoot, Mothman, the Virgin Mary, Psychic Healers, Leprechauns, Faeries, Menehune, and hundreds of other cultural creatures of the night.
I'm not sure fundamentalists would like to be in that company.
Yes, I do believe that there are "forces" that can manifest themselves in this reality. Absolutely.
But just because I believe this to be true... doesn't mean that Bigfoot is true. And if people believe they saw bigfoot, or Mothra or Leprechauns or what have you.... well, that's kind of THEIR issue. Not mine. People can and will believe in what they will.
All kind of stuff in this world can "open the door" to other things... but just because the door is open doesn't mean that what walks through is REAL.
I guess that would depend on how you describe "physical". Maybe that word is not really relevant to the discussion when you think about it...
I think it's pretty clear that the vast majority of Human Beings can clearly point to what constitutes physical reality.
C'mon. Don't play semantic games here. If Jesus came back from the dead in a physical body, it means he's still alive. He's "here" somewhere. Unless you are claiming he has since died.
Listen...Many Literalists claim he resurrected in a physical body. THINK ABOUT THE IMPLICATION OF THAT. He's STILL ALIVE. PHYSICALLY. Somewhere "out there."
He's breathing air. He's eating. He's pooping. He gets heartburn.
Sorry to be so explicit, but the idea that Jesus is anything more than an ideal of the values of Christian thought is ludicrous. Christians should embrace his teachings - not cling to absurd "proofs" that somehow validate his physical existence. I actually think Christians who cling to these stories are unsure of their own faith.
What part of psychikos (natural) and pneumatikos (spiritual) doesn't anyone understand?
Good grief....7 pages later and you are all still hammering this one out? The Greek is plain, and so is the English, and to further help those who haven't got it yet, let's add another verse which may help you along to the meat and marrow of the eschatological characteristics to this:
1 Corinthians 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1 Cor 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
And don't give me that nonsense about having the same body as the Christ resurrected before His ascension..it just doesn't fly in light of all the surmounting evidence from various epistles that the difference is monumental, otherwise, there would be no distinction in the first place. Christ's real body was a sign for unbelievers, and a type of what was to come!...Just as Noah being in the belly of the whale, that was a type for Christ to fulfill, in that is fulfilled by Him, and He was a type for the resurrection of the dead who would be raised as a collective body..>Revelation 11 - Two Witnesses.......blessed is he who believes and hasn't seen me.......John 20:29
And then you have those that really believe this is a human body....
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Is that enough for you....? Good Grief brothers and sisters......read the text..soak it in...eat it...drink it...whatever you do, but don't give me sensational science fiction...that is not what this is!
This is the Holy Word, the Living Testament of the Kingdom...that is within us..Luke 17:21
The verses you quote in 1 Corinthians are of course discussing the dual nature of man, physical body and spirit body, the former being of the earth and the spirit coming from heaven:
"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." 1 Corinthians 15: 44
Verse 50 confirms that resurrected beings are flesh and bone, no blood, blood is corruptible.
"Blessed is he who believes and hasn't seen me" as I see it refers to it being better (more blessed) to follow Christ by faith than by knowledge. (There are several scriptures referring to that I think.)
...But just because I believe this to be true... doesn't mean that Bigfoot is true...
Really? I think you have a whole lot of proof to come up with to support your assertion. Far more people today have claimed to see Bigfoot - in the flesh - than Jesus.
Again, all I am saying is that people who depend upon the literal, physical manifestation of a resurrection to validate their beliefs are completely missing the point of Jesus' teachings. It's unnecessary.
I took the liberty of looking up the scriptures you cite Mike and I just cannot understand how you reached the conclusions about them that you state. I see them much differently and will cite my preferred scriptures regarding three heavens below yours.
"and I just cannot understand how you reached the conclusions about them that you state."
Maybe because there's no progression to being a god, having to prove your worthiness, not advancing unless you're married in the ressurection taught in the Bible.
If you could put aside becoming a god for just once, you just might see a different purpose for being resurrected. In your world, there is nothing but proving worthiness in the ressurection, but Jesus taught that heaven as a free gift, instant, with no marriage, and not taking ages to achieve as recorded in the "Holy Bible".
Jesus' version of the ressurection in Bible is the light at the end of the tunnel, instead of the train of progression.
Last edited by twin.spin; 09-23-2009 at 11:22 PM..
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that I've had in the past. I think it's fun to just let your mind go and wander...
