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Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Good grief...are you going to tell me because it deosn't say "bone" that it isn't implied in that "flesh and blood" aren't a natural human body like you have now?
The reason ''flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God'' is because our current mortal bodies, having the old sin nature, and therefore being corrupted are not capable of being in the presence of God. That is the reason why our bodies are changed at resurrection so that the resurrected physical body no longer has a sin nature, and having been raised as a glorified physical body it is capable of entering into the presence of God.
The reason that Christ was physically resurrected was so that we also can be physically resurrected. Christ is the firstfruits. His resurrection is the pattern for our resurrection.
The reason ''flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God'' is because our current mortal bodies, having the old sin nature, and therefore being corrupted are not capable of being in the presence of God. That is the reason why our bodies are changed at resurrection so that the resurrected physical body no longer has a sin nature, and having been raised as a glorified physical body it is capable of entering into the presence of God.
The reason that Christ was physically resurrected was so that we also can be physically resurrected. Christ is the firstfruits. His resurrection is the pattern for our resurrection.
Say what you think is true. That Christ's body disappeared from the grave because he re-inhabited it. Then Christ would have been resuscitated not resurrected. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is not of this world.
John 18:36 (New International Version)
36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
It is a funky passage in and of itself. Suppose that the spirit leaving Jesus' body was the resurrection of the spiritual body... can that be why Matthew connected the two? Does our body stay intact after we die? Do we need an intact human body to be resurrected? Or is it raised a spiritual body and therefore the flesh and blood is not required?
I have no doubt that Christ was resurrected first. My question is relating to the physical and literal aspect of the resurrected. If it is a physical resurrection requiring a physical body then most of our ancestors are doomed for they are nothing but the dirt of the earth now or bones without form. But if it is simply a spiritual resurrection then Christ's body being still on the cross is not a problem because his spirit is resurrected in that he gave it up.
Now I know that this brings up more questions as to why his body disappeared and he tells Thomas that he is flesh and bone...not just spirit. but Jesus is also said to have appeared and disappeared after his resurrection so it was hardly the same as the body he had before his spirit was given up.
So you see it is not that I think the dead were raised BEFORE Christ but that his resurrection came before the body was put in the tomb. Meaning that it is a spiritual resurrection and not related to our physical bodies.
You're really struggling with this one Kat, it's good to be a sincere seeker after truth.
The spirit body leaves everyone's physical body at death, that's common, not just something that happened with the Savior, that is not resurrection. If it was then everyone who died even before the Savior's resurrection would have already been resurrected and there would be instant resurrection for all at the time of death!
Yes, it is my belief that our spirit body stays "intact" after death, as did that of the Savior. That's the nature of spirit bodies, once created they cannot be destroyed. We will never cease to exist even though some will wish they could so much because of their choices that they will call upon mountains to fall down upon them and hide them from their Redeemer whom they have scorned and rejected.
It is my understanding that regardless of how much the physical body is destroyed, "not a hair shall be lost." In ways we do not comprehend, vital elements of our physical bodies will permanently meld with our spirit bodies in the resurrection and our two bodies together will become immortal, whereas prior to the resurrection only the spirit body was indestructible.
For people who have already lived, died, and been resurrected you will not find their physical bodies upon this earth; at least not the vital elements of them that are blended with the spirit body to create the final form during the process of resurrection. That's why the dead physical body of Christ had disappeared from the tomb, leaving only the burial garments.
Resurrected bodies are not limited in the same way that physical bodies are. They are solid and tangible but can fly, walk through walls, appear and disappear to human eyes, live in burning fire, live where there is no oxygen etc. They are indestructible. But they can only be in one place at a time and are bound to certain limits. For example a person who is eventually resurrected with less than celestial glory cannot go to celestial worlds. But I'm getting off track here, my fingers rambling on...
I do not believe that there is such as thing as a "spiritual resurrection" if by that you say resurrection is something other than the permanent joining never again to be parted of one's physical body and spirit body. All that happened on the cross is that the spirit body of Jesus departed from his physical body, as happens every day everytime everywhere someone dies.
Last edited by justamere10; 09-24-2009 at 01:43 PM..
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Good grief...are you going to tell me because it deosn't say "bone" that it isn't implied in that "flesh and blood" aren't a natural human body like you have now?
I assumed beyond what I should have from that one verse: i.e. the "bone" part which only appears in other verses of scripture.
I understand that verse to mean that flesh and blood cannot be resurrected. But, I took from a larger context, flesh and bone can be resurrected and inherit "the kingdom of God."
You're really struggling with this one Kat, it's good to be a sincere seeker after truth.
The spirit body leaves everyone's physical body at death, that's common, not just something that happened with the Savior, that is not resurrection. If it was then everyone who died even before the Savior's resurrection would have already been resurrected and there would be instant resurrection for all at the time of death!
Yes, it is my belief that our spirit body stays "intact" after death, as did that of the Savior. That's the nature of spirit bodies, once created they cannot be destroyed. We will never cease to exist even though some will wish they could so much because of their choices that they will call upon mountains to fall down upon them and hide them from their Redeemer whom they have scorned and rejected.
It is my understanding that regardless of how much the physical body is destroyed, "not a hair shall be lost." In ways we do not comprehend, vital elements of our physical bodies will permanently meld with our spirit bodies in the resurrection and our two bodies together will become immortal, whereas prior to the resurrection only the spirit body was indestructible.
For people who have already lived, died, and been resurrected you will not find their physical bodies upon this earth; at least not the vital elements of them that are blended with the spirit body to create the final form during the process of resurrection. That's why the dead physical body of Christ had disappeared from the tomb, leaving only the burial garments.
Resurrected bodies are not limited in the same way that physical bodies are. They are solid and tangible but can fly, walk through walls, appear and disappear to human eyes, live in burning fire, live where there is no oxygen etc. They are indestructible. But they can only be in one place at a time and are bound to certain limits. For example a person who is eventually resurrected with less than celestial glory cannot go to celestial worlds. But I'm getting off track here, my fingers rambling on...
I do not believe that there is such as thing as a "spiritual resurrection" if by that you say resurrection is something other than the permanent joining never again to be parted of one's physical body and spirit body. All that happened on the cross is that the spirit body of Jesus departed from his physical body, as happens every day everytime everywhere someone dies.
It's not so much a struggle for me as I know what I believe. The problem is that well-meaning people (such as yourself) take verses about our life while alive and apply them to after death. There are two kinds of death, right? Dead in sin yet still physically alive, and dead or without the breath of life (spirit).
Isa 59:10 Like the blind we grope along the wall, feeling our way like men without eyes. At midday we stumble as if it were twilight; among the strong, we are like the dead.
The dead apparently don't need eyes.
Lam. 3:6 He has made me dwell in darkness like those long dead.
To be dead is to dwell in darkness.
Matt: 22:31-
But about the resurrection of the dead-have you not read what God said to you, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
The dead apparently have no God.
See the question was asked whose wife will she be in heaven... Jesus replies that they don't understand. Marriage is a living, physical thing. Without a physical body there is no need for marriage. Therefore there is no reason to have a physical body after death.
You commented about Jesus' physical body being gone from the tomb. Let me ask you something: Where is Moses' body?
The location of the body of Moses is said to have been hidden so that his body and sepulcher were not worshiped as an idol.
I don't agree with you that our bodies are preserved. The body is a temple of the Holy Spirit yet the physical temple that housed the Holy Spirit was destroyed to bring God's people to him spiritually. Thus it is natural that our physical bodies as a temple, at death, are destroyed and a spiritual body is it's replacement.
Now I know you are saying it will be a "new" body in that it can do things ours now cannot but there is no scriptural proof that this is true. If Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead did he stay alive for all eternity? Is he alive now? Or did he at some point die again? Jesus did not die again but is said to be living today. Obviously not on this earth in physical form therefore one can say that the resurrection of Lazarus is completely different from the resurrection of Christ.
IMO
Verse 50 confirms that resurrected beings are flesh and bone, no blood, blood is corruptible.
You say no blood but that flesh and bone can inherit the kingdom. But the bible says,flesh cannot inherit the kingdom. It doesn`t say just blood cannot inherit the kingdom but FLESH and blood.
1 Cor. 15 [SIZE=1]50[/SIZE]I declare to you, brothers, that FLESH and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
You say no blood but that flesh and bone can inherit the kingdom. But the bible says,flesh cannot inherit the kingdom. It doesn`t say just blood cannot inherit the kingdom but FLESH and blood.
1 Cor. 15 [SIZE=1]50[/SIZE]I declare to you, brothers, that FLESH and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
I see no conflict with my beliefs in that statement. Flesh with the blood still in it is not resurrected because blood is corruptible. But flesh without the blood is what is resurrected. It's the combination of flesh AND blood that doesn't work, that's still mortal.
I see no conflict with my beliefs in that statement. Flesh with the blood still in it is not resurrected because blood is corruptible. But flesh without the blood is what is resurrected. It's the combination of flesh AND blood that doesn't work, that's still mortal.
This is pure specultion that has no basis whatsoever, and simply put, your interpretation is meaninlingless.
Folks, the spiritual body is a body...but it is not a human body as we have now, and will never be flesh....blood or bone for the LDS justamere10.
This body can't be likened it to Jesus, because His body was not complete:
John 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
Christ is the firstfruit....the apostles were the firstfruits. James 1:18
Paul describes the Spiritual body as something you “put on” (KJV), from the Greek “enduo” meaning “to sink into (clothing), put on, clothe one's self.”
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must PUT ON incorruption, and this mortal must PUT ON immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have PUT ON incorruption, and this mortal shall have PUT ON immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
The picture being portrayed here is that the spirit “puts on” or wears the spiritual body. The spiritual body is like a garment, a vessel, a house, a temple, a tabernacle that covers and houses the spirit.
This is further supported from another passage written by Paul regarding the spiritual body
2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our EARTHLY HOUSE of this TABERNACLE were DISSOLVED, we have a BUILDING of God, an HOUSE not made with hands, eternal IN THE HEAVENS.
2 Cor 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be CLOTHED UPON with our HOUSE which is FROM HEAVEN:
2 Cor 5:3 If so be that being CLOTHED we shall not be found naked.
2 Cor 5:4 For we that are in this TABERNACLE do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be UNCLOTHED, but CLOTHED UPON, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
The earthly body as well as the heavenly body is compared to a house and tabernacle that ‘clothes’ (enduo) the spirit.
This is pure specultion that has no basis whatsoever, and simply put, your interpretation is meaninlingless.
Folks, the spiritual body is a body...but it is not a human body as we have now, and will never be flesh....blood or bone for the LDS justamere10.
This body can't be likened it to Jesus, because His body was not complete:
John 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
Christ is the firstfruit....the apostles were the firstfruits. James 1:18
Paul describes the Spiritual body as something you “put on” (KJV), from the Greek “enduo” meaning “to sink into (clothing), put on, clothe one's self.”
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must PUT ON incorruption, and this mortal must PUT ON immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have PUT ON incorruption, and this mortal shall have PUT ON immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
The picture being portrayed here is that the spirit “puts on” or wears the spiritual body. The spiritual body is like a garment, a vessel, a house, a temple, a tabernacle that covers and houses the spirit.
This is further supported from another passage written by Paul regarding the spiritual body
2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our EARTHLY HOUSE of this TABERNACLE were DISSOLVED, we have a BUILDING of God, an HOUSE not made with hands, eternal IN THE HEAVENS.
2 Cor 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be CLOTHED UPON with our HOUSE which is FROM HEAVEN:
2 Cor 5:3 If so be that being CLOTHED we shall not be found naked.
2 Cor 5:4 For we that are in this TABERNACLE do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be UNCLOTHED, but CLOTHED UPON, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
The earthly body as well as the heavenly body is compared to a house and tabernacle that ‘clothes’ (enduo) the spirit.
And some would say you are going WAY too spiritual with your interpretation, but I say very nicely said.
And some would say you are going WAY too spiritual with your interpretation, but I say very nicely said.
I like to think of it as my new skin
I agree. The physical obsession is very strong . . . it will not be overcome by spiritual abstractions. C'est la vie . . . it doesn't matter in the least.
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