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The only problem with that is that we die. even in resurrection we died. To God there is no spiritual death? or physical death? Because we will all die.. the bible doesn't elaborate on the afterlife because God is the God of the living... it is for us that are living that God is concerned about. Those that are dead have lived their life. We have no way of knowing what will happen exactly so God deals with the living.
Just a few rambling thoughts of my own regarding your comments.
Sure, we die, we die both a spiritual death (separation from the presence of God the Father) and we die a physical death, separation from our physical body until resurrection. But think about it a moment: when our physical body dies, from God's and our deceased loved one's point of view it's a birth, not a death! We leave here and return to them.
And regarding spiritual death, we're only 'dead' in our own awareness. A veil of forgetting our premortal life is drawn over our awareness and we cannot walk and talk with God like we could before we left our celestial home when the time came for our turn on earth. That way we can be truly tested. Once a child has been told not to do a certain thing it's unlikely he/she will do it when in the parent's presence. The test of obedience comes when the parent is not physically in the room. But in reality God never loses sight of us, it's WE who suffer spiritual death, not God.
It's true that "God deals with the living" as you write. But to God ALL are living ALL of the time! We do not cease to exist when our physical body dies. We go to a temporary place of rest in the spirit worlds that surround this planet and there continue to live. It is my belief that God continues to be fully aware of us as we live in the spirit worlds. There is organization there as well as here, and missionaries who teach and preach the pure doctrines, God's Plan of Happiness. And, like here, we are free to choose to accept it, to ignore it, or to reject it. My understanding is that most accept gladly.
It is difficult to make sense out of life without an understanding of premortal life. When we understand that we lived with God as spirits possibly for eons of time before we came to this world, things fit together and make sense.
"Without an understanding of our premortal life we cannot correctly comprehend our relationship with our Heavenly Father, nor can we completely grasp the purpose of this earth life and our divine destiny. This doctrine of premortal life...was known to ancient Christians. For nearly five hundred years the doctrine was taught, but it was then rejected as a heresy by a clergy that had slipped into the Dark Ages of apostasy. Once they rejected this doctrine, … they could never unravel the mystery of life. They became like a man trying to assemble a strand of pearls on a string that was too short. There is no way they can put them all together.”
Not only are we required to refrain from judging each other, if we do not forgive those who harm us, that unforgiveness becomes a greater sin than theirs.
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matthew 7: 1-2
"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Matthew 6: 14-15
"Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin." D&C 64: 9
Not only are we required to refrain from judging each other, if we do not forgive those who harm us, that unforgiveness becomes a greater sin than theirs.
Yes! Especially in that it affects how we treat others and ourselves. Unforgiveness is like a parasite slowly eating away at your vital organs.
Not only are we required to refrain from judging each other, if we do not forgive those who harm us, that unforgiveness becomes a greater sin than theirs.
Even our worst enemies my friend...God bless you
ok....that said ...we are all on the same page....now back to debate LOL
And so where is Jesus? Is he in the First Heaven, floating among the clouds somewhere, plainly in sight of anyone with binoculars?
Or is Jesus in the Second Heaven, living on some airless planet orbiting a star in Orion?
Or is Jesus in the Third Heaven, at least 46 billion light years away - far beyond the known boundaries of the observable Universe - completely out of touch with Earth?
Jesus Christ is seated in His session at the right hand of God the Father in the Throne room of God-the third Heaven. This is a reference to His humanity.
Acts 2:33 ''Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God...''
Psalms 110:1 The LORD (God the Father) says to my Lord: ''Sit at My right hand, (the place of honor) Until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet.''
At the same time, in His deity, Jesus Christ indwells the body of the Church age believer.
John 14:20 ''In that day (The dispensation of the Church) you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
John 17:22-23 ''And the glory which Thou has given Me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one; 23) I in them, and Thou in Me...''
Other verses: Romans 8:10; 2 Cor.13:5; Gal 2:20; Col. 1:27
Quote:
All I'm trying to say is that it is absurd to think about a physical resurrection, which is the question this thread poses. Spiritual? Maybe. Physical? Waaaay too many problems with that interpretation.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the thngs of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15) But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man. 16) For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE SHOULD INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ. (The written word of God. The doctrines of the word of God transferred into the soul of the believer through the teaching ministry of God the Holy Spirit via the pastor/teacher.-- 2 Corinthians 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.)
[QUOTE}
For some Christians to suppose that their faith rests upon a literal interpretation of physical resurrection is really a sad commentary on their own beliefs.[/quote]
One example of your error. In the future, at the second advent of Christ after the Old Testament Jewish saints and the tribulational martyrs have been resurrected, they, as well as the believing Jews who survived intil the end of the Tribulation, will inhabit the land that God promised to Abraham and his descendants. The believing Jews who made it to the end of the Tribulation will enter the land in their mortal bodies, and will be resurrected at the end of the Millennium, and the Tribulational Jewish Martyrs will be resurrected at the beginning of the Millennium and will enter the land in their resurrected immortal bodies. They will live in the literal physical land in their resurrected glorifed physical bodies. During the Millennium both mortal and immortal resurrected humanity will co-exist. It is God's plan that we go through eternity in resurrected physical bodies that are glorified. It is not God's plan that we go through eternity in spirit bodies.
Jesus Christ is seated in His session at the right hand of God the Father in the Throne room of God-the third Heaven. This is a reference to His humanity.
Acts 2:33 ''Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God...''
Psalms 110:1 The LORD (God the Father) says to my Lord: ''Sit at My right hand, (the place of honor) Until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet.''
At the same time, in His deity, Jesus Christ indwells the body of the Church age believer.
John 14:20 ''In that day (The dispensation of the Church) you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
John 17:22-23 ''And the glory which Thou has given Me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one; 23) I in them, and Thou in Me...''
Other verses: Romans 8:10; 2 Cor.13:5; Gal 2:20; Col. 1:27
1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the thngs of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15) But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man. 16) For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE SHOULD INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ. (The written word of God. The doctrines of the word of God transferred into the soul of the believer through the teaching ministry of God the Holy Spirit via the pastor/teacher.-- 2 Corinthians 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.)
Quote:
For some Christians to suppose that their faith rests upon a literal interpretation of physical resurrection is really a sad commentary on their own beliefs.
One example of your error. In the future, at the second advent of Christ after the Old Testament Jewish saints and the tribulational martyrs have been resurrected, they, as well as the believing Jews who survived intil the end of the Tribulation, will inhabit the land that God promised to Abraham and his descendants. The believing Jews who made it to the end of the Tribulation will enter the land in their mortal bodies, and will be resurrected at the end of the Millennium, and the Tribulational Jewish Martyrs will be resurrected at the beginning of the Millennium and will enter the land in their resurrected immortal bodies. They will live in the literal physical land in their resurrected glorifed physical bodies. During the Millennium both mortal and immortal resurrected humanity will co-exist. It is God's plan that we go through eternity in resurrected physical bodies that are glorified. It is not God's plan that we go through eternity in spirit bodies.
Mike,
I posed a question somewhere else to you and I don't remember seeing the answer so forgive me if I repeat myself:
In my understanding of the second coming, there is a time line. Now not all people agree on where the lines are drawn, such as pre-vs post-millennial views, but yet you seem so sure of yourself here. It is my understanding that there are certain rewards that are given only after the second coming.
These things are:
The spirit poured out on all flesh.
Salvation is complete.
Resurrection of the dead.
New Covenant promises
So do you say that the new covenant promise is of salvation or how would you define that? If Jesus has not given the power over to God so that God may be all in all.. Are we perpetually stuck in the transition from old to new? Do you also believe, then , that you must abide by the letter of the law, and sacrifice for your sins? You must obey all the old covenant if you say that the new is not in effect yet, right?
Anyway just wondering your thoughts. This is one of those things that caused me to dig deeper into scripture.
Thanks
Mike,
I posed a question somewhere else to you and I don't remember seeing the answer so forgive me if I repeat myself:
In my understanding of the second coming, there is a time line. Now not all people agree on where the lines are drawn, such as pre-vs post-millennial views, but yet you seem so sure of yourself here. It is my understanding that there are certain rewards that are given only after the second coming.
These things are:
The spirit poured out on all flesh.
Salvation is complete.
Resurrection of the dead.
New Covenant promises
So do you say that the new covenant promise is of salvation or how would you define that? If Jesus has not given the power over to God so that God may be all in all.. Are we perpetually stuck in the transition from old to new? Do you also believe, then , that you must abide by the letter of the law, and sacrifice for your sins? You must obey all the old covenant if you say that the new is not in effect yet, right?
Anyway just wondering your thoughts. This is one of those things that caused me to dig deeper into scripture.
Thanks
As Paul made clear in the book of Romans and in the book of Galatians, the Law is set aside for the Church. The law only applied to Israel. The Church abides in Christ. Not in the law. We do not sacrifice for sins. Christ paid in full the penalty for our sins. Our sins are not merely covered by His sacrifice. In the Old Testament, the animal sacrifices which looked forward to the historical coming of Christ, could only cover our sins. But when the reality came, when Christ came historically and paid for our sins, our sins no longer were an issue in salvation. After being judged for the last of our sins, Jesus said ''Tetelestai.'' --It is finished in the past with the result that it remains finished forever. Tetelestai has to do with a transaction taking place and having been accomplished. The work of Christ on the Cross eliminated our sins as an issue with regard to salvation, forever. They are only an issue in time as you commit them because they put you into a state of carnality, where you are under the control of your sin nature instead of being filled by the Holy Spirit. This means you can come under divine discipline. (Hebrews 12:6) Naming your sins as per (1 John 1:9) is the remedy for this. Therefore our sins are not merely covered as in old Testament times. They are as Psalms 103:12 prophetically says, '' As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.''
When Christ returns and institutes the Millennium, there will be universal knowledge of the Lord. This however will not prevent many people from rejecting Him as Savior. Revelation 20:7-9 tells us that when Satan is released for a while from his prison at the end of the Millennium, he will deceive the nations. Even with the Lord physically on the earth, seated on Davids throne in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:9-21; Isaiah 9:7) there will still be people who want nothing to do with Him.
The resurrection of the dead (the first resurrection)takes place in 4 stages.
1) The resurrection of Christ: Matthew 28.
2) The resurrection of the Church: John 14:3; Acts 1:11; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Thess. 2:6; Phil. 3:20,21; 1 Thess 4:16,17,18; You must understand that the Church is taken into Heaven before the Tribulation begins on earth so that the Church can be prepared for the wedding to Christ. (Rev. 19:7-9)
And so that the Church age believer can be evaluated for the purpose of reward for the works done on earth, to reward the Gold, silver, and precious stones, and to burn up the works that proved to be wood, hay, and stubble.(1 Cor. 3:12-15)
Keep in mind that the Church returns with Christ at His second advent. (1 Thessalonians 3:13) In order to return with Him, the Church must have first been taken up into Heaven by Him.
3) The Old Testament saints and Tribulational martyrs who died at the end of the Tribulation. (Rev. 20:4)
4) The Millennial saints at the end of The Millennium. (Rev. 20:5)
Notice that in between verse 4 and verse 5, the entire thousand year Millennium has occurred. Verse 5 says, ''The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6) Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power. Verse 6 then goes on to say ''...and will reign with Him for a thousand years.'' Obviously those who are in stage four of the resurrection will not reign with Him, because they have not yet been resurrected. It is those who are a part of stage two and stage three who will reign with Him during the Millennium.
The second resurrection is one collective resurrection of unbelievers from all periods of human history. They appear at the Great White Throne Judgment in (Revelation 20:11-15.)
Once all this has occurred and all who are going to be saved are saved and in their resurrection bodies, and all those who have rejected Christ are cast into the Lake of fire, salvation will be complete. That is, every one both saved and unsaved are in their respective eternal destinations. Of course, looking at it from the other aspect, the WORK OF OUR SALVATION WAS COMPLETE AT THE CROSS. That is the work of Christ on the cross on our behalf.
Galatians 5: 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word (logos).....
Christ is the Word and He fulfiled it all brother. Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. What Christ did on the cross, and through the armies of Rome with the obliteration of the Mosaic covenantal practices at the Temple, was a definite conflagaration of the Heavens and Earth.
Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
- Babylon and its fall
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
- Mystery Babylon (Apostate Israel) and its fall
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