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That is not necessarily so not to mention a very one sided approach. Some people believe in free will because they see it in scripture and many misconstrue the true meaning of "free will".
It depends what you mean by free will I guess. Many people simply think it means "choice". While this could be a definition of free will, it is not a very good one.
Humans do indeed make many choices. But so do cats. So do mosquitos. So do computers. Does a cat have free will? Does a computer have free will?
The correct definition of free will is having to do with making free choices. A free choice is a choice that is free from constraints and free from causes. You will not find that in scripture, nor in real life. Its a law of the universe. Cause and effect. There is no choice that you have ever made that had no cause. There are no uncaused choices.
In that sense, free will is an oxymoron. Its self contradictory, like saying "square circle" or "loud silence".
Folks, I'll repeat again. If God knows the future, there is no free will. Can we all agree at least that the future is set in stone and cannot be changed?
Look at it this way. The past is already written. No one can go back and change what they did in the past. In the same way, the future is already written.
Today is tomorrow's past, so today is already written in stone and unchangable.
A concept such as free will is contradictory to this truth that the past and future are set in stone. In a sense, we are only "free" to choose what has already been written. We can't go back and choose to do something different, and we can't choose anything different than what God knows will happen. Therefore we don't have free will. QED.
The bible confirms all this because it says God has already declared the beginning and the end. He has declared what must come to be, He has declared the future.
In effect there is only one timeline, and God has declared it. Physicists and others suggest ideas of multiple timelines, or even infinite timelines, but that doesn't line up with scripture. If there were multiple timelines, then the idea of free will could exist. But scripture tells us there is only one timeline. No open theism here.
I've always understood "free will" meaning free within the context of it's nature:
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, `Verily, verily, I say to you--Every one who is committing sin, is a servant of the sin,
Joh 8:35 and the servant doth not remain in the house--to the age, the son doth remain--to the age;
Joh 8:36 if then the son may make you free, in reality ye shall be free.
If the will of our natural mind is free to do good, and we are free to make spiritually good decisions, what does Jesus need to set us free from?
I think the will of our natural mind is free within the context of where it finds itself: in sin. But it does not appear to be spiritually free to see or do good (spiritually speaking), until set free by Jesus.
Exactly.....if we truly had "free will" then we wouldn't sin. We are bound in sin. The question is does free will have anything to do with salvation?Some say, no and others say, yes. Scripture clearly says, it is all God yet scripture also says and yet scripture says, we are responsible for receiving Christ as Savior.
Exactly.....if we truly had "free will" then we wouldn't sin. We are bound in sin.
Yes this is a good point. If we truly had free will, surely there would have been one person in existance througout history who would have chosen to never sin.
The only person who actually fulfilled that was Jesus. Did Jesus have free will? NO. He came to do the will of the Father.
Quote:
The question is does free will have anything to do with salvation?Some say, no and others say, yes. Scripture clearly says, it is all God yet scripture also says, through some strange way, we are still responsible for our salvation.
Scripture is clear, its all God, no ifs ands or buts. So any choice that we make to come to God, only happens because God willed it. God draws (drags) people to Jesus, and God enables them to believe.
Scripture is clear, its all God, no ifs ands or buts. So any choice that we make to come to God, only happens because God willed it. God draws (drags) people to Jesus, and God enables them to believe.
Yes you are preaching to the choir but the individual still has to believe, the individual still has to choose regardless if God willed them to believe.
In understanding the meaning of the words olam and aionios when applied to judgment and life, we must take into consideration the context of all scripture as an whole. Can olam imply eternal? Yes, whenever in regard to that which is implicitly eternal.
According to scripture all things in heaven and in earth and beneath the earth are being and will be finally reconciled to God.
According to scripture the purpose of Gods judgments are ultimately to teach righteousness.
According to scripture God will one day be all in all.
According to scripture Christ will make all things new.
According to scripture in Adam all die and in Christ all will be made alive.
According to scripture God is the savior of all men, especially those that believe.
According to scripture in the future there will com a time when there shall be no more curse, and sin and death will be destroyed.
Thus the words olam and aionios when applied to judgment/separation, destruction, suffering, and death, the words cannot mean eternal or everlasting.
If death lasts for ever than it will never be destroyed.
If Judgment/separation lasts for ever all things will never be reconciled to God and God will never be all and all and Christ will never make all things new.
If suffering lasts for ever then obviously suffering will never cease.
All this is to say that according to scripture judgment/seperation from God, destruction, suffering and sin and death are not implicitly everlasting or eternal but are temporary.
So even though the words aionios and olam, which of themselves do not mean everlasting or eternal, can imply everlasting or eternal when describing what is implicitly everlasting or eternal, they cannot imply everlasting or eternal when describing what is implicitly temporary.
Another comprehensive study on the meaning of the words olam and Aionios ... This study takes a slightly different view of the meaning of the word aionios as it was used to translate the word Olam throughout the old testament in the Septuagint. IN this study we are shown that Olam is derived from alam, which m eans hidden. It is the summery of this argument that the use of the word aionios woul be not so much a reference to time and to the quality of the invisible world. The argument is that aionios in reference to punishment(kolasis - correction), judgment, fire, torment/testing/purification, is to be understood in the sense that it derives from the invisible/hidden world of God.
It is a compelling article which adds afresh perspective to the ongoing debate concerning the implication of these words in scripture, using exegesis to derive the proper meaning of these words in context to the ideas to which they are applied.
Yes you are preaching to the choir but the individual still has to believe, the individual still has to choose regardless if God willed them to believe.
The individual will not choose God if God has not willed them to believe yet.
The individual will choose God if God enables them to believe.
Therefore it depends on God, not man.
Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
The individual will not choose God if God has not willed them to believe yet.
The individual will choose God if God enables them to believe.
Therefore it depends on God, not man.
Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
I KNOW ALL THAT!but free will still figures in here no matter how you try to harmonize it. Scripture is clear. I only teach what I see I don't try to harmonize it. This is a very difficult concept among the greatest theologians, not much written on it nor should it be. We leave this up to God but arminians make a great point because the bible is clear that we are responsible for receiving Christ as Savior.
I KNOW ALL THAT!but free will still figures in here no matter how you try to harmonize it. Scripture is clear. I only teach what I see I don't try to harmonize it. This is a very difficult concept among the greatest theologians, not much written on it nor should it be. We leave this up to God but arminians make a great point because the bible is clear that we are responsible for receiving Christ as Savior.
If you know all that, then why do you still believe we have free will?
I just showed you the scripture that says it does not depend on man! So how can it depend on man's free will? It doesn't.
How is it that we are responsible for "receiving Christ as savior?" Where is the scripture that says that? Scripture says no such thing because it would contradict Romans 9:16, John 6:44, John 6:65, etc.
Please think about this Fundy. Try to find a scripture that says we are responsible for receiving Christ as savior. Salvation cannot be completely a work of God and also depend on our choice to receive Christ. That is a square circle.
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