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I guarantee that if you name any single act that lacks love, I can show you which of the 10C it violates. More importantly, name one of the 10C that you can violate and still claim to love God?
This is a useless arguement HalfNelson!! They will not present a non-act of love that does not coincide with the ten commandments because it can't be done!!
I understand that the spiritually mature don't need to be told not to do something but it does not remove the truth that those things are not to be done, that is all I'm saying. The 10C are no less relevant, they simply are reflected in how a spiritually mature individual behaves.
I won't play games with you . . . so don't do so with me. The inescapable truth is that they are NOT sufficient compared to "love God and each other." They establish the wrong state of mind . . . avoiding punishable offenses (or just avoiding offending God) . . . states of avoidance do not reflect love and do not lead to spiritual maturity. Would you allow your children to play with the neighbor children of a law abiding, decent and caring (non-child molester) lesbian member of a liberal Christian denomination? I know the probable answer . . . but which of the 10C would be applicable?
I won't play games with you . . . so don't do so with me. The inescapable truth is that they are NOT sufficient compared to "love God and each other." They establish the wrong state of mind . . . avoiding punishable offenses (or just avoiding offending God) . . . states of avoidance do not reflect love and do not lead to spiritual maturity. Would you allow your children to play with the neighbor children of a law abiding, decent and caring (non-child molester) lesbian member of a liberal Christian denomination? I know the probable answer . . . but which of the 10C would be applicable?
I'm not playing games with you Mystic. You seem stuck on this idea that the only reason to follow the 10C is for punishment avoidance and that is not so. Christ made it clear that keeping the law in our heart and out of love is the whole purpose behind the 10C. You seem to not be understanding that. having a deep personal connection with God leads one to the understanding that His 10C law does encompass all. Any spiritually mature person can and will understand that, and no spiritually mature person will keep the 10 just to avoid punishment. The game you seem to be playing is trying to find any and every excuse to lessen the importance of God's 10C law. As if any law supersedes it.
As to your question, What!? What is the relevance? talk about playing games, you know you are asking a loaded question with far to many variables to answer with thoroughly derailing the original topic. I have no problem discussing my views on homosexuality, but you and I both know that that is to hot a topic to try to address without it became a topic of its own. Regardless of what my decision would be if I had children, what is the relevance regarding our current discussion?
I think part of the problem with things like the 10C's and the 2C's are that they are made for a specific reason.
What reason are they made for?
Well, the original 10 are the guidelines our Father has laid out to show the world what is NOT acceptable to Him. If you do the things He has ordained in His Law, then you have fallen short of His Glory.
But, having said that. If one reads Psalms, we see David over and over delighting in the Law. Well, which Law is he delighting in? Does this mean he is breaking them, which he had in the past, and is delighting in breaking them?
Or could it be that his heart was changed upon maturity, and the Law he is delighting in, is the love he has for God, and his fellow man? Remember, God said David was a man after His OWN heart.
Well, it couldn't be the heart that had a man killed, so he could sleep with his wife. Right?
So, I understand completely what Mystic is saying.
The problem here is that a child is arguing the rules of the playground, with the adult. Sorry, but this is how I see it. Does it make the rules less important to the child? No! But is the rules of the playground relevant to the adult who isn't even playing? NO!
So arguing about the 10C or the 2C is like the apple arguing with the orange over which one is fruit. Both are fruit.
Sorry for the analogies, but it is how I see it.
When the heart has been transformed into that which God delights, then the 10C and sin which accompanies those by breaking them become,,,well, irrelevant,, when compared to having the Light of the 2C beaming forth. Only the Pharisee would 'watch' to try and trap those who have the Light shining in the darkness.
So yes. It is a question of maturity, plain and simple. It is why one must become 'LIKE a CHILD' in order to understand the Law and the ramifications that come with breaking them, to fully appreciate what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did on the Cross FOR THEM.
Having understood them, and the willingness to follow Jesus as King, while HONORING GOD, slowly transforms the heart into one the Light can shone forth from.
So, either you see it for what it is, or you do not. Either way, does not make one right over the other, because you are looking at it from a certain perspective.
Ya'll need to fully understand ONE basic and most important thing. You typically are reading from a scripture which has been taken from Hebrew/Aramaic and translated into Greek. Greek is a "literal" language and Hebrew is NOT. First and most important principle to know if you are going to study the word at all.
Second is that with that knowledge you MUST take into account much of the writings context will NOT be understood from the Greek. This is perhaps the MOST common of all errors xtians make in their understanding of scripture. There is also NO....I repeat NO Hebrew word for "Law". The word Law is a complete and utter mistranslation taken from the word "Nomos" in Greek which is NOT the original word used. Most often the words changed into "Law" were the word "Torah" or "instructions". There were also "Precepts" as well but they were NOT LAW. So King David delighted in YHVH's Torah, NOT the Law.
Conversely, the thing that so many xtians delight in misunderstanding is that the Messiah came to do away with the "Law" as in the Torah. No No No. That is NOT what HE came to do away with. HE came to be the acceptable sacrifice, the sacrificial lamb promised by YHVH that would take away the sin of man. This meant doing away with the old traditional requirement (some call it law) in which if there were intentional sin committed in which there were 2 or more witnesses, you were to be stoned to death. Read Romans 11 to see this stated. The Messiah removed the requirement for this to be carried out. HE most certainly NEVER removed one letter nor word from the Torah nor the commanments which HE admonished us to DO if we loved HIM. Read Matthew 5:17-19, Rev: 22 etc. Someone has to wake up and stop sleeping at the wheel. HE is also coming for the "Lost Sheep of the House of Israel".....not some church. HE said so....so don't ignore HIM or cut and paste HIS words at will.
James made it clear that the 2C are simply a summary of the 10C.
James 2:8-11 (New International Version)
(8) If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. (9) But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. (10) For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (11) For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
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Just a clarification
