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Believe the Gospel? Present it in Love then, and explain it to ALL of us to 'hear', Mike. Your posts lack love in them, which I didn't see Jesus doing when He presented it.
What you perceive or don't perceive from my posts is your affair. I present the truth as I present it. Dogmatically. You'll get no 'well, maybe it's this or maybe it's that, or it could be the other thing.'', from me. If you're looking for sweetness and light and sugar and spice, then perhaps you'd better skip my posts.
Those who reject the deity of Christ, reject Christ, and stand condemned. And that is the dogmatic truth. On the authority of the word of God.
When the Samaritan woman told Jesus “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us” (John. 4:25). Jesus responded: “I who speak to you am he” (John. 4:26).
Notice that her understanding is that the Messiah will explain everything and Jesus agrees that he is the Messiah (anointed one) who will explain everything. It says nothing about her understanding that the Messiah would be God but in fact Jesus simply agrees to be the Messiah who will explain everything IE anagellos which means "to bring back word."
Jesus carried the word from God to them. That is what Jesus agree that he is.
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The OT scriptures detailed this, but many Jews, did not understand this.
The language Christ used for Himself, was only that of God....hence the charge for His execution.
So the Jews never understood what you now do? He was charged with insurrection by claiming to be leader of the Jews. He was charged by the Sanhedrin with blasphemy for calling himself the Messiah and son of God. You misread the text IMO due to your trinitarian glasses.
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No I don't. You do. The above is a quick denial of the text, but in reality, it usurps your premise entirely. Again, you are showing the inability to discern context and grammar of the text.
I was pointing out that if you are consistent in your literal application of those titles then you would have to admit that Jesus is the Father... the everlasting father. If you deny this then there is something NOT literal within the text. Perhaps these are names designated by men to God and Jesus, being God's representative, is also all those things. However, to claim that the verse states Jesus is God is nothing but reading into the text. All things (including those very titles) were given to Christ as he did nothing outside what was given him and the will of God.
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Yet the scriptures again are clear who the suffering servant is...and that is God. You have it all wrong.
God is the suffering servant? I guess I am confused as to what this is in response to. God is bigger than the earth and the OT is clear about that. In fact, the OT is clear (as is Rev.) that the heavens and earth flee from his presence... he is so vast as to push everything out of the way. The Hebrews did not believe in a trinity of Gods.
I don't know what type of historical account you are getting this from but it was blasphemy to even entertain the idea that God was more than one. AND even the most unintelligent person will not tell you that 1+1+1=1 expecting you to give them the thumbs up!
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Exegesis? Prove it that they didn't. I am, is the phrase the Jews fully understood....their freedom was sourced from this very term, and was put into action. One of the top greatest events in their history, and Christ claimed that very title. You deny the obvious. Again, you show your inability to discern the scriptures.
All of which discuss the passage in Exodus as the name of God being Yahweh. The description of Yahweh is "I am that I am" corresponding to Yahweh. I AM is not the name of God nor would they have thought that.
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My God can do anything, and the scriptrues prove He did just that, from the beginning to end. Just because many "apostate" Jews didn't see this, proves to me, that the Holy Ghost doesn't reside in you, as it didn't for them, or else, they and you, could see this clearly.
The apostate Jews aren't the only one who didn't see it. It would have been a huge deal back then to go from God is one to God is three in one yet not one apostle deemed it unusual. They would have had so much controversy over that back then that it makes no sense what you are saying. In fact the Sanhedrin didn't have enough evidence to try Jesus for blasphemy but they should have if he was claiming to be God.... Silence in the bible about the issue tells alot. Had they meant to say that Jesus was God then I would think they would have mentioned it outright. Yet no they didn't.
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This whole issue people like you have, is more witness to the doctrine of ELECTION, as it was when Jesus spoke in parables, to this day with folks like yourself that don't accept Christ as God in the Flesh. Then only "many" were chosen, as it is today.
That is a tangent that really has nothing to do with our conversation.
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You cannot call yourself a Christian IMO unless you follow ALL the teachings of Christ, which include His deity claims, and until you surrender completely to His will, will there then be regeneration. Otherwise, those who hold to this doctrine, fall short of the faith.
Through faith and submission.
Yet you have not proven that Jesus even claimed to be God... so if you want to believe something extraneous to scripture, be my guest! But I choose to follow what Christ ACTUALLY taught!
For humans to try to separate the Father from the Son is like trying to cut water with a butter knife.
Either this means I've done the impossible or it means that I'm not human. It is quite easy to separate the two. They are fully distinct beings, a divine Father and a divine Son. Saying that the two are one Being and providing the logic to support that premise is what's hard.
Either this means I've done the impossible or it means that I'm not human. It is quite easy to separate the two. They are fully distinct beings, a divine Father and a divine Son. Saying that the two are one Being and providing the logic to support that premise is what's hard.
And from what I understand the Son is begotten from the Father (not co-equal)
If God and Jesus are co-equal how can God be the head of Christ?
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
According to you.
Many Christians believe that Jesus shows humans the correct path. If humans find this path by other means, they will still enter the Kingdom of God.
That's not what Jesus said in John 14:6 "Then Jesus told him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through Me".
And from what I understand the Son is begotten from the Father (not co-equal)
If God and Jesus are co-equal how can God be the head of Christ?
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
There exists within the Godhead, submission. This does not imply inferiority of nature within the Godhead. Only authority. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are co-equal and co-eternal. Their respective roles in which the Son submits to the Father, and the Spirit submits to both the Father and the Son have to do with creation and with their plan of salvation.
The word translated begotten is monogenes and means unique in kind. One of a kind. Jesus Christ is the unique Person of the universe. Both eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one Person. Since the incarnation, when God manifested Himself in the flesh (1 Tim. 3:16), He has been and will be eternally hereafter, the God-man.
Where Christ is said to be the first born of all creation (Col 1:15), it simply means that Jesus Christ is the heir of all creation. Creation exists for Him. (Heb. 1:2). It in no way implies that the deity of Jesus Christ was created. He Himself is the agent of creation of all that has been created.
the real question is.. Are u a true follower of Jesus?
a true follower shows fruit(john 15:8)... love, joy, patience, kindness,goodness, faith, gentleness, humility, self control.
I cant argue about what truth is.. it does not need to be defended .. it just Is.
I still don't understand how you can be tempted with something you already own, dang it!
you cant.... it was the human part that was tempted... The human part of Christ... er God didn't own anything or have any other use than a costume for God to wear here on earth so we could argue about it for the next 2000 years.
The deity of Christ is not a trivial issue. Your eternal salvation depends upon whether you understand that Jesus Christ is God. Therefore I am posting another thread on the subject. If you deny the deity of Christ, then you don't know Christ, and He doesn't know you. Now, in my other thread, I showed from the scriptures that Jesus Christ is God. And still, the usual people on this forum continue to deny His deity. These people are eternally lost unless they come to an understanding of the truth. For those who may not have seen the other thread, here is the link to it. And if you did read it, you would do well to go back and read it again. In the thread are passages that directly state that Jesus Christ is God.
What I want to do here is to direct the readers attention to a link which I hope will be thoroughly read and read again. And I hope a thought will get through.
The article touches upon the rules of Greek grammer regarding some of the passages that deal with the deity of Christ.
For instance, Titus 2:13 is mentioned. ''looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus''; and reference is made to the The Granville Sharpe rule of Greek grammar to show how the passage means what it says. Namely, that Jesus Christ is God.
What you believe is your affair. God holds you personally responsible to understand the issue. If you persist in non-Biblical beliefs which deny the deity of Christ, then you have placed your faith in a non-Biblical Jesus who cannot save you. And you will be eternally lost.
It is recorded in John 8:24 that Jesus said the following. ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.''
'I am' is a reference to His deity.
Read the commentary at the following resource on this passage and heed it's meaning.
Good post, and I agree. I didn't know URs deny that Christ is God, but apparently they do.
I and the Father are one - John 10:30
You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-31-2010 at 05:58 PM..
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It is quite easy to separate the two. They are fully distinct beings, a divine Father and a divine Son. Saying that the two are one Being and providing the logic to support that premise is what's hard.
The human part of Christ... er God didn't own anything or have any other use than a costume for God to wear here on earth so we could argue about it for the next 2000 years. 
