Cincinnati Streetcars (Cleveland, Beavercreek, Beaver: move to, land, money)

[austiNati]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

Reckless juveniles like our manchild Mayor want the car to be driven over a cliff to experience the excitement of the fall.

... or, he just wants to initiate an alternative mode of transportation to kick off a regional transit plan. Cars aren't going anywhere, but they're not the only way.

Originally Posted by wilson1010

Your references to Denver are too silly to even address.

Denver's growing, we're not. Denver has inner-city rail, we don't.

Originally Posted by wilson1010

Spending 128million (probably really 200 million by the time it actually gets done) and than having to feed it several million per year forever, to have a little trolley run on a route no one wants, is really a stupid idea.

Wow, no one wants a streetcar in downtown or uptown???? I must've missed something because I don't know anyone who lives there that DOESN'T want it. How is this stupid? Not as stupid as promoting sprawling, disconnected growth on the verge of an oil crisis that will skyrocket gas to over $5/gallon.

Originally Posted by wilson1010

The adults are trying to get back in the drivers seat and get us safely to our destination.

LMFAO. Yep, $5/gallon sounds awesome. Let's focus on what the 'adults' want, while the younger generation flee to other cities and states that are actually going somewhere. It doesn't matter what you think, it's proven that this kind of transit promotes and upstarts proper growth.
btw: 128 million for streetcar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>5-10 BILLION to POORLY upgrade I-75 to a C- status.

Originally Posted by wilson1010

This toy would not save one gallon of gas or keep anyone from having to own a car.

It would if it was expanded to it's full potential. And so what if you still have to own a car, at least you wouldn't have to use it to do EVERYTHING, I MEAN EVERYYYTHING. So, yeah that could save you some money in the long run.
You must really not have a problem with rising oil cost. What's YOUR alternative to helping the situation? More driving? More cars? More highways to carry people OUT of the city?

I hate when people are anti-cincinnati.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtRK-oZl_pdVJ2ssSyom0AIeE6yeC6YTNk8leDr3DIanmBw (broken link)

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by austiNati

I hate when people are anti-cincinnati.

I love Cincinnati. We just have a different vision for the future. You want to return to the technology of the past now long discarded. Trains on rails. Ha! Turn of the century charm?

Me? Not so much.

[austiNati]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

I love Cincinnati. We just have a different vision for the future. You want to return to the technology of the past now long discarded. Trains on rails. Ha! Turn of the century charm?

Me? Not so much.

Cars were invented the 19th century. It's called upgrading. Steam engine --> Bullet Train. Model T --> hybrid cars

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

I love Cincinnati. We just have a different vision for the future. You want to return to the technology of the past now long discarded. Trains on rails. Ha! Turn of the century charm?

Me? Not so much.

Yeah, I don't think it's helpful to call anyone "anti-Cincinnati" for taking the position that the city and/or the state can't afford to build a streetcar project at this point in time.

Look. The notion keeps coming up again and again that this is an age-related issue, and that people from my generation don't want progress, don't understand progress, are mired in an irrational longing for the way things were in 1960, etc. In some cases that might be true. But on the other hand, our life experiences have taught us a thing or two about managing money: mine, yours, anybody's, a corporation's, the government's...

There are always a few things that are needs--as opposed to wants--that it's justified and often unavoidable to go into debt for. A decent house for your family, a car to get you to and from work, your kid's dental work. You bite the bullet and pay for the use of somebody else's money because it would be difficult and/or not cost-effective to do without these things. You DON'T BORROW MONEY to pay for a fancy wedding, a designer handbag, a Rolex, a Caribbean vacation, or a Caribbean vacation home. You've had time to get the lesson that if you do borrow for these things, eventually you not only won't have the things, you won't even have squat. I don't see recognition of this irrefutable reality on the part of people in their 20s and 30s, and it's abundantly evident in the foot-stamping tantrums about the streetcar.

I wish Cincinnati already had an extensive system of public transportation. It's a damn shame nobody had the foresight to build it back in the day when the area could afford it. Now it can't afford it, it's not going to be able to afford it in the foreseeable future, and if you don't like living in a place where that's the reality, then pack up and move someplace that'll suit you better.

[austiNati]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

Yeah, I don't think it's helpful to call anyone "anti-Cincinnati" for taking the position that the city and/or the state can't afford to build a streetcar project at this point in time.

His opinion on the streetcar isn't what's anti-Cincy, I respect different opinions. But when you say no one wants to go downtown, or uptown, and keep mentioning how downtown is 'nowhere' and a 'failure' that just adds to the 'can't do mentality' that I've witnessed from people here my entire life. Other cities would kill for our history, architecture and scenery. This town is beautiful and it seems like sooo many people are content with avergae/below average.

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

I wish Cincinnati already had an extensive system of public transportation. It's a damn shame nobody had the foresight to build it back in the day when the area could afford it.

And we had another chance in 2002. Only that time, it was regional, not just a streetcar. Over half of it would've been completed by now. Minneapolis had the same offer at the same time, and they're LOVING their new transit system.

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

if you don't like living in a place where that's the reality, then pack up and move someplace that'll suit you better.

Adding to the population exodus of this fine area. It all makes sense now. Maybe I should, this is America after all, Ohio isnt the end all be all of anything. We'll see what happens after I graduate.

**Hangs head, walks slowly out of the thread**

[Wilson513]

Goodbye, then.

The reason that the toy trolley was destined for failure is the usual: it was designed and planned by government bureaucrats for whom no decision is free from their political motives. So, the trolley was to link downtown through the worst of OTR (McMicken Ave) and then on to UC and the Zoo. Several important constituencies of the politicians all on one useless trolley line. You could drive that route at any time of day and not have two more cars in the line with you at any point. That is the reason no one wants it. Because, no one wants it.

Find a place where there is a traffic jam and a parking problem and create an alternate shuttle system and I might support it. But for a tracked vehicle to wander along some lonely route at $20million per mile is just plain stupid.

[blowingdown]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

Goodbye, then.

The reason that the toy trolley was destined for failure is the usual: it was designed and planned by government bureaucrats for whom no decision is free from their political motives. So, the trolley was to link downtown through the worst of OTR (McMicken Ave) and then on to UC and the Zoo. Several important constituencies of the politicians all on one useless trolley line. You could drive that route at any time of day and not have two more cars in the line with you at any point. That is the reason no one wants it. Because, no one wants it.

Find a place where there is a traffic jam and a parking problem and create an alternate shuttle system and I might support it. But for a tracked vehicle to wander along some lonely route at $20million per mile is just plain stupid.

The streetcar is designed to turn around the city core and spark support for a regional system by showing the community that rail-based transportation can work in Cincinnati. People will want to live on a transit line, there's no question about that. There isn't even a streetcar laid yet and people are willing to live in the heart of what was once the most dangerous part of OTR, it's called the gateway quarter.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by austiNati

...Adding to the population exodus of this fine area. It all makes sense now. Maybe I should, this is America after all, Ohio isnt the end all be all of anything. We'll see what happens after I graduate.

**Hangs head, walks slowly out of the thread**

I have things that tie me here, but if I were 25 or 30 years younger and had the potential to earn enough someplace else to afford the same standard of living I have here, I'd be out of here in a heartbeat. I have a lot of fondness for the place, but I'm not so out of touch with reality to think that my fondness is particularly rational.

Ohio certainly isn't the end all of everything, and Cincinnati CERTAINLY isn't.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by blowingdown

The streetcar is designed to turn around the city core and spark support for a regional system by showing the community that rail-based transportation can work in Cincinnati. People will want to live on a transit line, there's no question about that. There isn't even a streetcar laid yet and people are willing to live in the heart of what was once the most dangerous part of OTR, it's called the gateway quarter.

Really, where is the streetcar in Gateway Quarter? I mean if it is all turned around, as you said, how did it ever happen without a streetcar?

[PhillytoCincy]

It's really sad though. I mean in the face of an even faster declining population, the city and state want to turn this away?!?! I don't understand this city, do they like failure? Do they like a declining city that is literally going no where but downhill faster than most cities around the country?

I heard Kasich wants to take this money and put it towards building a new bridge! How much bigger of an idiot can this guy become???? Road development is much more expensive to maintain than rail, when are Ohioans ever going to wake up? They are failing themselves. I understand the money issues, it's a national thing right now, but if Cincinnati doesn't do anything quick, it is going to loose more money because it is rapidly declining. We are now in the same population bracket as Des Moines, Iowa. How sad is that?

Ohio can't afford to keep up with its highway systems... They were built when Ohio had a larger population. Cleveland and Cincinnati have traffic problems, but not to the extent that they were decades ago. So now we are trying to repair roads that we can't afford to keep up with anymore. Meanwhile more people continue to move to the suburbs faster than ever, and we let our city core fall to ruins.

I fear this city is on the path towards becoming Detroit. Loving the suburbs, forget about the city core. Cincinnati will be an even more bigger butt of jokes around the country.

I haven't seen Cincy-Rise on here in a while. Probaly another progressive native to the city that has just given up on this city that is clearly going no where. It pains me to say it, but Cincinnati really has failed so bad this past decade, and I am not just talking about the declines in population.