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From Google Earth. Visually, the business districts are similarly built-up. They have a similar impact. SF has greater urban density, Philly almost immediately transitions to row houses. I am not a Philly native even though I live in Philly. I photograph hotels for a living, often the big ones you find in many downtown areas. I've seen most of the great cities in this country, and I admit SF makes me jealous when I am there, but when I return to Philly I don't think 'wow SF was so much more built-up and urban than Philly' because that would be silly. SF has better scenery, better restaurants and clubs, and overall is a world-class city. Philly offers the chance to live in your own house, right next to downtown, at affordable prices. That's a huge plus. Philly is also one of the most walk-able and bike-able cities thanks to the fact that it is laid out in a flat, dense grid.
1. NYC
2. Chicago
3. Philly
4. LA
5. SF
Philly-vs-SF from Google Earth (http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagicdigital/6005007355/ - broken link) by imagic digital (http://www.flickr.com/people/imagicdigital/ - broken link), on Flickr
Er, why are you looking at SF from the Bay where there is no development, only water? LOL
Furthermore, if one subtracts Philly crime that is restricted to two specific, impoverished areas (west Philly, North Philly), the overall crime rate drops dramatically. If you're white, your chances of being murdered in Philly really are very slim, same as in most cities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rah
It's actually not all that different. On a city-proper level Philly has a higher violent crime rate than SF, but not Oakland.
The two cities are nearly identical on an MSA level though:
Violent crime rate per 100,000 residents (2006):
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD M.S.A. 659.2
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA M.S.A. 635.9
Murder rate per 100,000 residents (2006):
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD M.S.A. - 9.5
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA M.S.A. - 8.9
I think SF would be quite a bit lower on the CSA level though, as it adds San Jose, and areas in the north bay with relatively low crime rates.
For the record, SF city proper actually had a higher violent crime rate than Philadelphia from 1985 through 1996 (possibly longer, but FBI records end in '85). Philly constantly had (and still has) a significantly higher murder rate than SF, whereas SF constantly had a significantly higher robbery rate than Philly. Philly is higher across the board now of course.
For example there are areas of Philly that given the .012 sq miles would yeild densities right at the Little Saigon area but are drawn a little different and the core of SF overall is a little more dense.
Just imagine if you applied his statistical legerdemain to the Polo Grounds in Harlem.
Each building probably houses 5,000 people or so, but yet covers something like .01 sq. miles. That means each building (or neighborhood, as rah would call it) would have a density of 500,000 people per square mile.
Is "Little Saigon" an apartment building? I mean, the 83K density stat is obviously misleading. I mean, if someone told you they lived in a neighborhood that had a pop. density of 83K, you'd expect to see Harlem on steroids. That's obviously not the case anywhere in San Francisco. If Little Saigon has a pop. density of 83K, then I guess the Queensbridge Projects must have a pop. density of 1 million.
Why am I not surprised that you arent also picking out the tiny Philadelphia neighborhoods as well?
Philadelphia
Neighborhood, Population/Area in Sq Miles/Population Density Antique Row, 1,002/0.027/37,402 Gayborhood, 4,356/0.118/37,009
Powelton Village, 4,996/0.156/32,108
South Philadelphia, 22,053/0.702/31,414 Financial District, 1,913/0.063/30,274 Spruce Hill, 8,289/0.274/30,215
Rittenhouse, 19,917/0.665/29,938
Dickinson Narrows, 5,513/0.188/29,273
Washington Square, 12,372/0.426/29,044
Newbold, 13,106/0.463/28,295 Restaurant Row, 183/0.007/28,133 East Passyunk Crossing, 8,188/0.306/26,753
Penn Campus Shopping/West Philly 5,522/0.210/26,275 3rd St Fabric Row, 139/.006/25,019 Point Breeze, 25,689/1.054/24,547
Girard Estate, 10,157/0.414/24,508
Harrowgate, 16,681/0.699/23,878 Avenue of the Arts, 393/0.017/23,750 Passyunk Square, 11,608/0.500/23,196
Filter Square, 4,694/0.203/23,100
Fairmount, 5,918/0.259/22,826 Chestnut Street, 595/.026/22,505 Bella Vista, 4,456/.200/22,284
Wharton, 24,742/1.089/22,728
Garden Court, 7,695/0.347/22,204
Carroll Park, 12,733/0.588/21,652
Cedar Park, 15,755/0.717/21,988
Spring Garden, 6,715/0.312/21,552
Center City West, 26,037/1.203/21,642
Haddington, 27,138/1.275/21,285 Bainbidge St Booksellers Row, 765/.036/21,202 Cobbs Creek, 40,433/1.979/20,431 Oregon Av Discount Shopping, 1,477/0.072/20,430 Fairhill, 28,456/1.415/20,112
63rd St Discount Shopping, 1,777/.091/19,558
Society Hill, 6,413/0.330/19,429
Baring, 13,721/0.708/19,392
Southwest Center City, 9,816/0.508/19,325
Queen Village, 6,038/0.313/19,312
Italian Market, 2,424/0.126/19,240 Penn Center, 1,386/0.073/18,869 Passyunk Discount Shopping, 772/0.041/18,743 The Badlands, 5,349/0.288/18.586
Walnut Hill, 5,678/0.312/ 18,204
Squirrel Hill, 6,611/0.366/18,052 South Street, 1,092/0.061/17,831 Fairmount, 21,329/1.232/17,309
Olney, 37,253/2.109/17.667
Brewerytown, 11,966/.694/17,249
West Oak Lane, 39,254/2.277/17,236
Each building probably houses 5,000 people or so, but yet covers something like .01 sq. miles. That means each building (or neighborhood, as rah would call it) would have a density of 500,000 people per square mile.
Why am I not surprised that you arent also picking out the tiny Philadelphia neighborhoods as well?
Projection. It's what's for dinner!
YOU were the one who posted the data. I've said all along that statistics (as we all know) can be misleading. And now your boy, rah, is even arguing that the Tenderloin is denser than Harlem because, well, his data says so. I mean, San Francisco has denser and more urban neighborhoods than Harlem, so it's no wonder why little ol' Philadelphia doesn't have a fighting chance against that 47 sq. mile juggernaut.
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