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Miami and Ft Lauderdale are still very strip mall-ish sunbelt feeling. I dont feel like Miami is that much more dense than Houston or Dallas when I'm there. Yes statistically Miami has the highest people/sq mile in the south but in person it really doesnt feel any different. The very small city limits of miami helps that ratio in its favor. Development style though is not much different than the Texas cities. South Beach may be the exception in terms of density and urbanity. The urbanity in Ft Lauderdale is really bad.
Miami and Ft Lauderdale are still very strip mall-ish sunbelt feeling. I dont feel like Miami is that much more dense than Houston or Dallas when I'm there. Yes statistically Miami has the highest people/sq mile in the south but in person it really doesnt feel any different. The very small city limits of miami helps that ratio in its favor. Development style though is not much different than the Texas cities. South Beach may be the exception in terms of density and urbanity. The urbanity in Ft Lauderdale is really bad.
Yeah...the neighborhood areas in and around south beach is what I am referring to. Miami has tried to get some stuff going with Brickell area, but it is going to be awhile.
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Originally Posted by annie_himself
Same for New Orleans. A freak of nature city south of the M-D.
Miami is also limited in its room to grow as well. (to an extent)
I agree, I already referred to New Orleans in an earlier post.
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New Orleans probably has more livable "urban" style neighborhoods than the other big 3 actually.
Miami and Ft Lauderdale are still very strip mall-ish sunbelt feeling. I dont feel like Miami is that much more dense than Houston or Dallas when I'm there. Yes statistically Miami has the highest people/sq mile in the south but in person it really doesnt feel any different. The very small city limits of miami helps that ratio in its favor. Development style though is not much different than the Texas cities. South Beach may be the exception in terms of density and urbanity. The urbanity in Ft Lauderdale is really bad.
Good post, that is why, really. They don't want to develop like the northern cities. It is what it is.
This too, it is usually posters from outside the city and tourists who go downtown, I don't know many people IN the big major cities that really want to live in downtown and know plenty that rarely if EVER go downtown unless it is to like some random event or to pick up a city sticker. It's all about the neighborhoods. The southern cities can compete on some scrapers here and there and have competitive skylines, it is the neighborhoods they lack the most, as they are virtually nonexistent. It is the neighborhoods people want when they talk about "urban living" and "urban environment" ...not many people care about the down towns. That's why you often see somebody from Atlanta for instance posting a pic of their skyline when going against a northern city, nobody cares and only proves their concept of "urban living" is so far off. Then the northern city poster will post an aerial and say, look, your downtown goes straight into nothing and suburban neighborhood giant lots and freeways, many southern posters then don't even grasp what they are trying to convey. I know some do but many it is just right over their heads. Show me some dense and vibrant neighborhoods then we'll talk. New Orleans probably has more livable "urban" style neighborhoods than the other big 3 actually. If this site wasn't so obsessed with stupid skylines maybe we could get somewhere in the conversation.
I think your the one who understands what I'm talking about, I wouldn't expect the residents of my city or the other 2 to want their city to be Manhattan or Chicago but when one travels abroad and returns to the states it really does leave a lot to be desired as far as the energy of the city that most U.S. cities lack, throwing up tall brand new scrapers might be pleasing to the eyes for some, but ultimately it really doesn't do much for the city, for example here in Seattle a metro that is smaller than both DFW and Houston has a much more vibrant downtown with people out walking enjoying life, when I go to Dallas you will see people downtown but its lacking energy which goes back to my original point of the store fronts not just in strips but in and all around downtown, walkable dense neighborhoods adjacent to the city, in the end I love Dallas that's my home and that will never change but people should really get out more especially to other cities in other countries, they might be lacking in scrapers but more than make up for it in vibrancy and pedestrian cohesion.
The southern cities can compete on some scrapers here and there and have competitive skylines, it is the neighborhoods they lack the most, as they are virtually nonexistent. It is the neighborhoods people want when they talk about "urban living" and "urban environment" ...not many people care about the down towns. That's why you often see somebody from Atlanta for instance posting a pic of their skyline when going against a northern city, nobody cares and only proves their concept of "urban living" is so far off. Then the northern city poster will post an aerial and say, look, your downtown goes straight into nothing and suburban neighborhood giant lots and freeways, many southern posters then don't even grasp what they are trying to convey. I know some do but many it is just right over their heads. Show me some dense and vibrant neighborhoods then we'll talk. New Orleans probably has more livable "urban" style neighborhoods than the other big 3 actually. If this site wasn't so obsessed with stupid skylines maybe we could get somewhere in the conversation.
I disagree with this assessment of people from certain cities limiting urbanity to skyscrapers and skylines. I think the vast majority of people understand that it refers to density, walkability, transit, and, yes, neighborhoods (and downtown itself is a neighborhood).
Miami and Ft Lauderdale are still very strip mall-ish sunbelt feeling. I dont feel like Miami is that much more dense than Houston or Dallas when I'm there. Yes statistically Miami has the highest people/sq mile in the south but in person it really doesnt feel any different. The very small city limits of miami helps that ratio in its favor. Development style though is not much different than the Texas cities. South Beach may be the exception in terms of density and urbanity. The urbanity in Ft Lauderdale is really bad.
I get what your saying but the difference is that Ft. Lauderdale and Miami have everything in place for a walkabe environment in the core, Miami more so.
Ehhh, South Beach is one of many dense walkable barrier islands really. Then you got Coconut Grove, Coral Gables, South Miami, Delray Beach, downtown West palm, DT FTL, and FTL beach, DT Hollywood, and Hollywood Beach, etc.
Ehhh, South Beach is one of many dense walkable barrier islands really. Then you got Coconut Grove, Coral Gables, South Miami, Delray Beach, downtown West palm, DT FTL, and FTL beach, DT Hollywood, and Hollywood Beach, etc.
In short, nope. It's not really there fault. As has been pointed out, they missed the pre-auto age. The Phillys, Bos's of the world would be in the same boat if it weren't for their pre-war development. Even NYC puts up significant obstacles to development.
The best the 3 can hope for is to pull of a Seattle. Basically, a vibrant downtown and a couple semi-dense adjacent neighborhoods with a few walkable neighborhood commercial strips. London it is not, but it at least gives the area something of a city feel.
In short, nope. It's not really there fault. As has been pointed out, they missed the pre-auto age. The Phillys, Bos's of the world would be in the same boat if it weren't for their pre-war development. Even NYC puts up significant obstacles to development.
The best the 3 can hope for is to pull of a Seattle. Basically, a vibrant downtown and a couple semi-dense adjacent neighborhoods with a few walkable neighborhood commercial strips. London it is not, but it at least gives the area something of a city feel.
Yes I concur with your statement, I feel that the 3 cities have not reached their peak for what they are, I think most older cities have hit their peak but not us just wondering what road each will take to accommodate new comers and if and when these cities will become greener and sustainable.
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