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Miami and Ft Lauderdale are still very strip mall-ish sunbelt feeling. I dont feel like Miami is that much more dense than Houston or Dallas when I'm there. Yes statistically Miami has the highest people/sq mile in the south but in person it really doesnt feel any different. The very small city limits of miami helps that ratio in its favor. Development style though is not much different than the Texas cities. South Beach may be the exception in terms of density and urbanity. The urbanity in Ft Lauderdale is really bad.
Miami has suburbs like Miami Beach that are more densely populated than the city proper. Even so, Miami proper is over 11,000 p/sm: which is already quite densely populated for a 100 year old sunbelt city. Miami has other burbs that are over 10,000 p/sm. Miami's small city limits isn't the main reason why it's densely populated. The main reason is because the area is more limited on available land than other sunbelt cities.
I believe Atlanta can and it is in the process. I believe Houston can but has some SERIOUS work to do to catch up. I don't believe Dallas can.
Atlanta has the potential to be built out like Chicago, literally. Downtown would be the Loop and Midtown would be like Streeterville, etc. Peachtree could become like Michigan Ave, and that's the goal of developers and politicians in the city. Transit is there and about to be expanded, and there are more and more residents in high rises and mid-rises fronting walkable streets.
Outside of the PacNW, both Atlanta and Miami are doing the most to develop in a sustainably walkable and dense way, and that is quite a challenge in today's world.
Some Atlanta posters believe Houston is way behind their city in urban development and I don't understand why.
It seems that the term "density" is being interpreted in two ways here which might be causing some confusion: density of the built environment and population density. I'm not sure which has the highest density in terms of the built environment within the core. I'm tempted to say Atlanta, but if so, it wouldn't be by much IMO.
The problem is that CD glorifies urban compact cities and demonizes sunbelt style cities.
Cities like Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta are simply different from the North Eastern cities, Chicago, or San Francisco. They arent better or worse, they are simply different. Some will like them better others will hate them.
Why are we pretending that the Sunbelt cities are suddenly going to become like the Northeastern cities? Let them be what they are. I for one would take Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, or Dallas over New York or Philadelphia any day and a big reason I would is because I prefer my own space (or dare I use the world sprawl) over having to live stacked on top of other people. If that means I have to drive my car 30 minutes to work instead of spending 30 minutes on a bus or train, so be it.
While its blasphemy on this forum, the majority of the United States agrees with me. Look at where people are moving. Even in the Urban cities of the country, its all subruban growth. People want good schools, their own house, more space, they want to be near the big city, and they want it for cheap.
At the heart of it all these cities all developed differently for a reason. Its important to remember that too.
The problem is that CD glorifies urban compact cities and demonizes sunbelt style cities.
Cities like Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta are simply different from the North Eastern cities, Chicago, or San Francisco. They arent better or worse, they are simply different. Some will like them better others will hate them.
Why are we pretending that the Sunbelt cities are suddenly going to become like the Northeastern cities? Let them be what they are. I for one would take Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, or Dallas over New York or Philadelphia any day and a big reason I would is because I prefer my own space (or dare I use the world sprawl) over having to live stacked on top of other people. If that means I have to drive my car 30 minutes to work instead of spending 30 minutes on a bus or train, so be it.
While its blasphemy on this forum, the majority of the United States agrees with me. Look at where people are moving. Even in the Urban cities of the country, its all subruban growth. People want good schools, their own house, more space, they want to be near the big city, and they want it for cheap.
At the heart of it all these cities all developed differently for a reason. Its important to remember that too.
Exactly. I don't know why some posters are hooked on the idea of density being better. To me, i don't even think Density makes a city.
I for one would take Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, or Dallas over New York or Philadelphia any day and a big reason I would is because I prefer my own space (or dare I use the world sprawl) over having to live stacked on top of other people. If that means I have to drive my car 30 minutes to work instead of spending 30 minutes on a bus or train, so be it.
While its blasphemy on this forum, the majority of the United States agrees with me.
good post justme02. i feel similarly. i don't feel, however, that southern cities should necessarily seek to live a life style or seek the models of cities like san fransisco or l.a. the cities of the northeast w/ their transportation systems, to me, makes a good deal of sense. however, light rail and high speed rail makes little sense in the majority of the major cities in the south or the rest of the sunbelt states. cost for construction, operation, and maintenance of rail systems will always be a major factor in the use of this mode of transportation. leave these cities to make the decisions for themselves, and stay out of it. i'm not going to give up my car for any number of reasons, particularly for independence, nor for the seemingly superiority complex of the train rider, or the "cool" feeling one supposedly gets, as he steps from doors which automatically open." it is simply too much to pay for a fleeting high.
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very flawed reasoning. ATL has smaller city limits than NY, why isn't it achieving density and urban levels which rival the cities you mentioned???
