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Old 01-29-2012, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Music City, USA
5,127 posts, read 5,042,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unity77 View Post
I agree that census estimates are pretty much worthless, but what would you suggest the government do to remedy the process?
Not be so bureaucratic.
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:44 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
8,052 posts, read 9,813,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
Not be so bureaucratic.
Census collection is all about a strategy and a process. Any suggestions on how to improve it would require significant thought, coordination and money. To suggest that it just becomes less bureaucratic isn't a solution.

Any real or perceived problems with the Census applies to every state, county, city and town. The Census isn't on a mission to punish or reward any particular state, county, city or town.
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:35 PM
 
958 posts, read 271,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
Saying that every one of PA's cities is seeing revitalization and growth is ridiculous. Just because a few restaurants open in Allentown it does not mean it is coming back, you need to see if things last.
What are the new industries for Allentown and Scranton?
Well let's see... every city in PA (minus Philadelphia) based itself and relied upon ONE industry. Every city in PA, including Philadelphia, lost all of the things that held it up for centuries.

Every single city in PA, including Philadelphia, has completely re-invented itself and created a much more healthy economy.

Every single city in PA has also seen growth and people moving there from outside the area. That never used to happen.

Oh, and Ocean Spray is possibly (or maybe actually did) moving a bottling plant to a place near Allentown, to name just one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintainschaos View Post
Now I agree that Pittsburgh, while it's still getting smaller, is definitely becoming a better, more attractive and desirable place to live. And I have nothing against Pittsburgh, and I think the area is beautiful. However, the poster is pretending that every single city in PA is experiencing "revitalization and growth," for which he or she has no real evidence.
Nobody's pretending, so drop your little attitude.

Every single city is.. because every single city went down. Every single one.
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Old 01-29-2012, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Athens, GA (via Pittsburgh, PA)
9,749 posts, read 8,778,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couldntthinkofaclevername View Post
No state fell as far and as hard as PA did. Every single one of our cities basically stagnated and declined. Every single one.
This is true, with the exception of State College, which never declined. Between 1960 and 1990, Pennsylvania grew by 562,277 people, and between 1980 and 1990, it grew by a mere 17,748 people. The 1960's, 1970's and 1980's were arguably harder on Pennsylvania than any other state.


Quote:
Originally Posted by couldntthinkofaclevername View Post
Every single one is seeing revitalization and growth, though some are of course growing slower than others. Our entire state is coming back to life.
This is not entirely true. Most cities are revitalizing themselves, and most parts of the state are coming back to life, but not all.

Philadelphia, Allentown and Harrisburg are all improving in every way. As mentioned before, State College never declined in the first place. Lancaster and York were stagnant for a decade or two, but never developed any serious problems, which made revitalization easier.

Pittsburgh and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are odd in that their population growth is zero at best, but both are improving markedly nonetheless. Reading is growing, but has some serious problems to deal with.

Erie, Altoona and Williamsport are stagnant in every way. Sadly, Johnstown is still declining, and might ultimately die before it comes back.

Rural eastern Pennsylvania has it better than rural western Pennsylvania as well. Outside the metropolitan areas, poverty generally gets worse from east to west.

Small towns in eastern Pennsylvania are more likely to be quaint and well-kept, and have decent amenities. Small towns in western Pennsylvania are more likely to be dilapidated and trashy, with few amenities. Yes, there are quaint small towns in western Pennsylvania and trashy small towns in eastern Pennsylvania, but those are exceptions.

Basically, the small towns in eastern Pennsylvania are becoming extensions of the prosperity of the nearby metropolitan areas, while Pittsburgh is becoming the cultural and economic oasis in a desert of decline in western Pennsylvania.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:04 PM
 
Location: The City
19,350 posts, read 16,686,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
This is true, with the exception of State College, which never declined. Between 1960 and 1990, Pennsylvania grew by 562,277 people, and between 1980 and 1990, it grew by a mere 17,748 people. The 1960's, 1970's and 1980's were arguably harder on Pennsylvania than any other state.




This is not entirely true. Most cities are revitalizing themselves, and most parts of the state are coming back to life, but not all.

Philadelphia, Allentown and Harrisburg are all improving in every way. As mentioned before, State College never declined in the first place. Lancaster and York were stagnant for a decade or two, but never developed any serious problems, which made revitalization easier.

Pittsburgh and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are odd in that their population growth is zero at best, but both are improving markedly nonetheless. Reading is growing, but has some serious problems to deal with.

Erie, Altoona and Williamsport are stagnant in every way. Sadly, Johnstown is still declining, and might ultimately die before it comes back.

Rural eastern Pennsylvania has it better than rural western Pennsylvania as well. Outside the metropolitan areas, poverty generally gets worse from east to west.

Small towns in eastern Pennsylvania are more likely to be quaint and well-kept, and have decent amenities. Small towns in western Pennsylvania are more likely to be dilapidated and trashy, with few amenities. Yes, there are quaint small towns in western Pennsylvania and trashy small towns in eastern Pennsylvania, but those are exceptions.

Basically, the small towns in eastern Pennsylvania are becoming extensions of the prosperity of the nearby metropolitan areas, while Pittsburgh is becoming the cultural and economic oasis in a desert of decline in western Pennsylvania.

While generalized this is a pretty good overview IMHO

Maybe Jo PA did some good in state college; if it wasnt so remote it probably could be even more

I slight thing is to me both Reading and Allentown are larger versions of the small town dynamic in the Eastern part of the state, the biggest difference is more core issues and more rapid increases in affluence around them driven by the pull from the larger metros (Philly for Reading and Philly/NYC for Allentown)
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:43 PM
 
958 posts, read 271,926 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
This is true, with the exception of State College, which never declined. Between 1960 and 1990, Pennsylvania grew by 562,277 people, and between 1980 and 1990, it grew by a mere 17,748 people. The 1960's, 1970's and 1980's were arguably harder on Pennsylvania than any other state.




This is not entirely true. Most cities are revitalizing themselves, and most parts of the state are coming back to life, but not all.

Philadelphia, Allentown and Harrisburg are all improving in every way. As mentioned before, State College never declined in the first place. Lancaster and York were stagnant for a decade or two, but never developed any serious problems, which made revitalization easier.

Pittsburgh and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are odd in that their population growth is zero at best, but both are improving markedly nonetheless. Reading is growing, but has some serious problems to deal with.

Erie, Altoona and Williamsport are stagnant in every way. Sadly, Johnstown is still declining, and might ultimately die before it comes back.

Rural eastern Pennsylvania has it better than rural western Pennsylvania as well. Outside the metropolitan areas, poverty generally gets worse from east to west.

Small towns in eastern Pennsylvania are more likely to be quaint and well-kept, and have decent amenities. Small towns in western Pennsylvania are more likely to be dilapidated and trashy, with few amenities. Yes, there are quaint small towns in western Pennsylvania and trashy small towns in eastern Pennsylvania, but those are exceptions.

Basically, the small towns in eastern Pennsylvania are becoming extensions of the prosperity of the nearby metropolitan areas, while Pittsburgh is becoming the cultural and economic oasis in a desert of decline in western Pennsylvania.
What I meant was the ten largest cities, both in population and in importance.

I'll give you Erie. To be honest I don't know a ton about Erie compared to the other cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
While generalized this is a pretty good overview IMHO

Maybe Jo PA did some good in state college; if it wasnt so remote it probably could be even more

I slight thing is to me both Reading and Allentown are larger versions of the small town dynamic in the Eastern part of the state, the biggest difference is more core issues and more rapid increases in affluence around them driven by the pull from the larger metros (Philly for Reading and Philly/NYC for Allentown)
True, JoePa really put that place on the map. That stadium is I the fourth biggest in the world. It's crazy how big college football stadiums are.

In my opinion, the city that has the potential to grow the most out of the smaller cities in PA is Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, once the railroad from Hoboken to Scranton is finally finished.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,489 posts, read 11,372,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Allentown has an influx of commuters to non Allentown areas; agree not nearly the same thing

PA has places getting better and some getting worse. Just like about every other state
No argument that some are getting better and some worse. There are just some posters that think everything is rosy with their state.
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Athens, GA (via Pittsburgh, PA)
9,749 posts, read 8,778,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Maybe Jo PA did some good in state college; if it wasnt so remote it probably could be even more
He did, but it wasn't all him. Penn State was bound to grow with or without him, and so was State College by extension, but all he did was put the town and the university on the national map, as opposed to just the regional map.


Quote:
Originally Posted by couldntthinkofaclevername View Post
In my opinion, the city that has the potential to grow the most out of the smaller cities in PA is Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, once the railroad from Hoboken to Scranton is finally finished.
I disagree. Not that Scranton/Wilkes-Barre isn't in a good spot, but I think Allentown/Bethlehem will grow the most, being only an hour from both Philadelphia and New York.

The highway connections are already good with New York (I-78), and even better with Philadelphia (I-476 and PA 309), so if Philadelphia extends a high-speed rail line north and New York extends one west, then watch the double-digit percentage growth accelerate. The Allentown/Bethlehem MSA is already deceivingly large. It has 821,623 people, according to the 2010 Census, and 833,363 according to the 2012 estimates. Extrapolating the estimates, it'll have 882,123 people by 2020, and could push 1,000,000 by 2030.

On the other hand, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is a bit more isolated. It's an hour and a half from New York, and two hours from Philadelphia, and it's basically on the fringe of the megalopolis. The nearest decent-sized city is Allentown, which is 70 miles away.

I even think Harrisburg has more potential than Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Being the state capital gives it extra importance, and it's an hour and a half away from Philadelphia and Baltimore, and two hours away from Washington DC. There are other similarly-sized cities nearby too. York is 30 miles away; Lancaster is 40 miles away, and Reading is 50 miles away.

Overall, I'd rank Pennsylvania's MSAs like this, in terms of future potential:

1. Philadelphia
2. Pittsburgh
3. Allentown/Bethlehem
4. Harrisburg
5. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre
6. York
7. Lancaster
8. State College
9. Reading
10. Erie
11. Altoona
12. Williamsport
13. Johnstown
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Athens, GA (via Pittsburgh, PA)
9,749 posts, read 8,778,872 times
Reputation: 8878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
Saying that every one of PA's cities is seeing revitalization and growth is ridiculous. Just because a few restaurants open in Allentown it does not mean it is coming back, you need to see if things last.
What are the new industries for Allentown and Scranton?
If you see a Mack truck on the highway, it was built in Lower Macungie Township, just west of Allentown.
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:31 PM
 
Location: The City
19,350 posts, read 16,686,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
If you see a Mack truck on the highway, it was built in Lower Macungie Township, just west of Allentown.

Maybe that truck is carrying Yuengling Beer made just north of Allentown, though believe it is out of the MSA actually
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