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Why did you choose to cap these metros off at 1.3 million for this discussion? Just asking! There are quite a few cities that should or at least could be added into this discussion for comparison purposes, and a city like Tucson is completely outclassed here and really doesn't belong...
The 1-1.3 million metro category contains exactly 10 cities which was a good sample size for what I was looking to do. I also wanted the discussion to include cities like Tucson, Grand Rapids, and to a lesser extent Rochester that tend to have less of a voice on here.
I know Tucson comes in on the low end of population, but it is a metro of over 1 million people. I also know there are things going on there that deserve a shout out. It's unfortunate there is little to no Tucson representation lurking in City vs. City to give it a voice. Plus the homer in me wants to make people aware that Grand Rapids is more than just an Akron type city and there are lots of things happening.( As showcased by some of the things said about it.) I'd be open to an expanded discussion, but I do like the back and forth that we've had going here.
In all fairness to Richmond, it's densest neighborhood is roughly 25% park land. For whatever reason, the totalties of Byrd and Maymont parks do not show up as parks on google maps. The structural and population density of that neighborhood is greater than the raw numbers imply.
Economy: Louisville and Hartford *wealthiest of all the ones listed, and more Fortune 500 companies (UTC, Aetna, The Hartford, Cigna, Stanley Black and Decker, etc)
You just said it exactly--it has nothing to do with present day vibrancy...
Buffalo was once a Top 15-20 metro area at its peak. It is now a shell of itself, and I'm using "shell" not as a denigration but as a descriptive. It feels smaller than almost every city in its weight class, because it's built form contains wide swaths of abandonment. The city doesn't feel "full". It certainly isn't a busy city, and doesn't have the expected energy and pace of a Top 15 metro; which is to say, it's built form does nothing to contribute to any feeling of a larger city....
Buffalo feels large by New York State standards. If one chose to add the Ontario side to it's population, it would be closer to 1.5 million than 1.6 million, but in this topic of conversation, that added population increase is irrelevant. It adds nothing but people and keeps Buffalo still where it's at--a formerly Top 20 metropolis that has deeply slid. All Buffalo's built form does is give the impression of a city with less suburbia in its city limits. It feels like a city, a city with much less suburbia and virtually nothing rural within its city limits, but a small city nonetheless. The only people who feel Buffalo feels like a city larger than the listed cities, are people who a)are unfamiliar with the listed cities, or b)people from New York State...
Richmond feels larger simply because it's inner city is just as built up as Buffalo's, if not slightly more, and is much more vibrant and busy. Obviously your statement about Buff and Roc formerly having more people is true. My only argument is that, that has nothing to do with how those cities feel today in comparison to similarly-sized cities...
Recreation you say?
Some more plusses for Buffalo and metro area compared to the other cities:
- besides New Orleans, the only other city on the list with an NFL team
- the only city with an NHL team
- only city with a top 10 world tourist site in the metro
- only city on international border
- only metro spanning 2 great lakes, with beaches, vacation communities, etc
- over 1500 protected boat slips within the city limits alone with recreational boating on Lakes Erie, Ontario, Niagara River, Buffalo River, and Erie Canal (whitewater on lower Niagara if you are up to it)
- adjacent to 2 metro areas >1M (Toronto and Rochester)- Access to all of Toronto's amenities (as the #1 city in Canada) within less than 2 hours, and Rochester's in around 1 hour.
- 3 horse racetracks (1 in Ft. Erie 1.5 mi from downtown Buffalo)
- 5 full casinos, plus multiple slots and "racinos" (US and Canada) - NF Canada is "Canada's Las Vegas"
- 7 downhill ski areas within an hour drive, plus multiple snowmobile and cross-country areas
- Buffalo is adjacent to 2 of the major North American wine regions (Canada's Niagara and NY Finger Lakes), and with abundant grape and fruit orchards in the metro area along the Niagara Escarpment and the sloping shores of Lake Erie
- does any other region have "Sugar House Tours" during maple syrup season?
- downtown public ice skating at Fountain Plaza and the canals at Canalside
- bars serve until 4am
- New Orleans should win on food, but Buffalo has a food and food style named after it
- Canadian Motor Speedway (65k seats, largest stadium in Canada) under development (led by Jeff Gordon) in nearby Ft. Erie (4 mi from downtown Buffalo) - first NASCAR track in Canada
Last edited by RocketSci; 07-09-2017 at 02:58 PM..
Economy: Louisville and Hartford *wealthiest of all the ones listed, and more Fortune 500 companies (UTC, Aetna, The Hartford, Cigna, Stanley Black and Decker, etc)
You can take Aetna off the list...sucks for Hartford though.
Economy: Louisville and Hartford *wealthiest of all the ones listed, and more Fortune 500 companies (UTC, Aetna, The Hartford, Cigna, Stanley Black and Decker, etc)
Hartford lost Aetna and is in the process of filing bankruptcy. They should be dead last in the economy rankings. Grand Rapids should be up there, fastest growing city in the country if i'm not mistaken.
Hartford lost Aetna and is in the process of filing bankruptcy. They should be dead last in the economy rankings. Grand Rapids should be up there, fastest growing city in the country if i'm not mistaken.
All of these rankings I am posting are from the 2017 Metro Monitor from the Brookings Institution. All of the rankings posted next to the city are its rank among the top 100 metro areas.
2005-2015 Economic Growth (total job growth, metro GDP growth, jobs at young companies)
1. Salt Lake City-12th
2. Richmond-29th
3. Louisville-38th
4. Hartford-56th
5. Buffalo-68th
6. Rochester-79th
7. Grand Rapids-81st
8. New Orleans-82nd
9. Birmingham-83rd
10. Tuscon-87th
2005-2015 Prosperity (Income Growth, Wealth)
1. Salt Lake City-13th
2. Buffalo-23rd
3. Louisville-29th
4. Birmingham-47th
5. New Orleans-52nd
6. Hartford-54th
7. Richmond-73rd
8. Grand Rapids-77th
9. Rochester-78th
10. Tuscon-83rd
2005-2015 Inclusion (across-the-board jobs for rich and poor)
1. New Orleans-6th
2. Salt Lake City-15th
3. Buffalo-17th
4. Birmingham-61st
5. Rochester-62nd
6. Hartford-68th
7. Grand Rapids-69th
8. Louisville-77th
9. Richmond-82nd
10. Tuscon-87th
And Per Capita Incomes in 2015 (From American FactFinder)
1. Hartford-36,361
2. Richmond-32,493
3. Rochester-29,608
4. Louisville-28,736
5. Buffalo-28,504
6. Salt Lake City-28,192
7. New Orleans-27,767
8. Birmingham-26,977
9. Grand Rapids-26,384
10. Tuscon-26,164
I think the aforementioned rankings are useful in that they create a holistic picture-more than just job growth in 1 year or building permits over several months. That being said, I think we can safely say Salt Lake City has by far the best economy of these metros, and Tucson has the worst.
All of these rankings I am posting are from the 2017 Metro Monitor from the Brookings Institution. All of the rankings posted next to the city are its rank among the top 100 metro areas.
I think the aforementioned rankings are useful in that they create a holistic picture-more than just job growth in 1 year or building permits over several months. That being said, I think we can safely say Salt Lake City has by far the best economy of these metros, and Tucson has the worst.
The only objection I have to using data like this is that it includes the period during the great recession that disproportionately affected certain cities on this list. It show's a historical perspective, but I think looking at the past 5 to 7 years would paint a more accurate picture of current conditions.
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