What is America's most historic city? (state, people, Boston, pros)

[supermanpansy]

Originally Posted by TomDot

Holy Crap! I've never heard someone rewrite history to this extent before.
There were 7,000 English souls living in Boston before any European set eyes on the land that would become Philadelphia.

On a lighter note, I have enjoyed your phantasmagorical rantings.

Ha Ha, I'm glad I amused you!



Why don't you share your brilliant view, huh?

I'd like to hear it. I'll even give you some time to look things up. It seems that's what many on here are doing. Not that that's a bad thing. If nothing more it will help some. I get my information from years of schooling. And fyi, I haven't been to college in quite a few years. I am regurgitating my point of view through memory. Unfortunately, memory is fallable. Although I don't think I have stated anything innacurately. I know that some things I didn't bring up. That doesn't mean that they didn't happen. I just don't think their impact "historically" on our nation is as important as what I have brought up. Even so, I might have missed something. If so, oh well. At least I am not acting like I have all the right answers, yet say nothing.

Please, enlighten me with your wisdom,

Go ahead, I'll give you time to look it up..

[Duderino]

This thread is mildly amusing, if only because there will always be a continual quibble between Philadelphia and Boston for the "most historic" title, and I honestly think it's a draw. Meanwhile, I've found a credible source listing all of Philly's "firsts" -- a pretty comprehensive list, and few that I had no idea about:

"While almost all cities lay claim to their share of "firsts", no U.S. city can claim as many as Philadelphia.

One of the oldest cities in the United States, Philadelphia was founded by William Penn in 1682 and laid out in a simple grid pattern that included wide streets and five public squares. In that respect, Philadelphia was the first "planned city" in North America.

While it would be impossible to list all of Philadelphia's "firsts" in a single article, it's well worth while to look at a sample of some of the most interesting ones.

• Philadelphia is home to the nation's first public grammar school, now known as the William Penn Charter School, founded in 1689.

• America's first life insurance company, The Presbyterian Minister's Fund, was opened in Philadelphia in 1717.

• America's first botanical garden, Bartram's Gardens, opened in 1728.

• Philadelphia is home to the nation's first public library - the Free Library of Philadelphia - founded by Benjamin Franklin in 1731.

• The first volunteer fire department, the Union Fire Company, was founded in Philadelphia in 1736 by Benjamin Franklin.

• The Pennsylvania Hospital, founded by Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Bond, opened its doors in 1751 - the first hospital in America. In addition, Philadelphia is home to the nation's first medical school, first children's hospital, first cancer hospital, first eye hospital, first nursing school and first dental school!

• The concept of lightning being electricity was discovered by Benjamin Franklin in 1752 when he was able to draw lightning from the clouds by means of a kite.

• The first flag of the United States was sewn in Philadelphia in 1777 by Betsy Ross.

• The first university in America, the University of Pennsylvania, founded in 1779, traces its roots to a tuition-free school founded in 1740.

• The Pennsylvania Bank, the first American public bank, opened in 1780. It was later renamed the Bank of North America, the first incorporated bank chartered by the Continental Congress.

• Philadelphia was the first capital of the United States from 1790 - 1800.

• The first stock exchange in the United States was the Philadelphia Stock Exchange, which organized in 1790.

• The first mint in the United States opened in Philadelphia in 1792. For the first time standardized coins were issued for the new nation.

• The first municipal water system in the country, the Philadelphia Water Works, began operation in 1799.

• The first art school and art museum in America, the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts, was founded in Philadelphia in 1805.

• The Pennsylvania Horticultural Society, organized in 1827, is the oldest continually operating horticultural society in the United States. The Philadelphia Flower Show, first held in 1829 and sponsored by the Society, was the first large flower show in the country.

• In 1874 the Philadelphia Zoo became the first zoo to open in the United States.

• The first World's Fair held in the new world was held in Philadelphia in 1876 to mark the centennial of the United States.

• The PSFS Building in downtown Philadelphia became the nation's first modern skyscraper (notably fully air-conditioned) when it opened its doors in 1932.

• The world's first computer, ENIAC, was built at the University of Pennsylvania in 1946."

Philadelphia Firsts - Leading the way in education, horticulture, medicine and public services

[TomDot]

Do yourself a favor and look these things up!

[dem3456]

Originally Posted by supermanpansy

But like I said before. (this is what your not understanding). Our history is formed historically through the British. Not the Dutch not the Puritans. Sure the Dutch resided in NYC and the Puritan's came to Massachusettes. But as far as who created the most historical importance as well as establishing our laws, our governments, etc are the British. They happen to put into enactment these things, where--Philadelphia....Otherwise, like I already mentioned we might as well find out where the Native Americans lived and call their history our history....By the way, I agree with your factual information but not on your perspective towards "American" history. "Our history". I understand that you are from Boston and have a "centric" view of Boston. However, I am not from Philly and I am totally impartial towards all cities. But I understand that from an American historical standpoint, Philly in my opinion is above Boston in this specific category...

OK, I know people are probably sick of us arguing, but again, I don't think many of your points are historically correct.

Tmac already stated that the Puritans were from Britain. To say that our history is tied to the British is to say that our history is tied with the Puritans. That is indisputable. Additionally, if you believe so much that only the British give us our historical tradition, Boston should surely be more historical because it remained a largely British town throughout the colonial period. William Penn's mission was to create a colony for persecuted minorities, which came to include people from all over Europe, not just British.

I agree with you that Pennsylvania, and hence Philadelphia, was designed by Penn to be a land of religious freedom, and therefore included separation of church and state, as our modern government does. Penn also had a government system inspired by Locke similar to what we have today on the federal level. Yet this does not make Philadelphia more historical in my mind, it just means that its government was the inspiration for our own national government. There is more to history than politics.

As I stated, Boston is older and therefore has several decades of a headstart on Philadelphia. Boston was where the American Revolution truly began, both in rhetoric and in terms of actual fighting; it was where many of the most famous colonial leaders were from (Philadelphian Ben Franklin was from Boston himself); it was a major port in the federal period and extremely wealthy; it was the first center of the American Industrial Revolution (due to nearby mill towns like Pawtucket and Lowell); it was the birthplace of the Transcendentalist movement and home to prominent American literary figures like Alcott and Hawthorne; it was the hotbed of the abolitionist movement during the buildup to the Civil War; it remained an industrialized, modern, and very cultured city through the end of the 1900's. The 1900's are admittedly less historical, but Boston did have the first subway and telephone in America, as I mentioned earlier, both of which are significant. Boston remained tied with the history of this nation due to the Kennedy family, being the first state to allow gay marriage, etc.

I do have a centric view of Boston. I am from the Boston area and know more about it than any other city.

But to say you are being completely objective is false. You have denied history to fit your views about Philadelphia in saying earlier that the British who came though Philadelphia went on to move to Boston and New York. That is utterly false.

[dem3456]

Originally Posted by supermanpansy

Yes, the Puritans came to this country to escape prosecution for their religous views. However, they were not violent people and did not partake in overthrowing the British. So their significance towards Americas history is very little. Their significance towards establishing city-state-government in our history is obsolete.This is why I tend to discount them. Now I know you'll come back with some of their contributions. I don't want to hear it. I already know what they are. Please don't try to play me like I am stupid. I am far from that..

The Puritans did not partake in overthrowing the British? Who did then? The descendants of the Puritans were the people living in Boston during the start of the Revolution. And to generalize the Puritans as "non-violent people" is silly.

How can you say the significance of the Puritans to America is little? Alexis de Tocqueville, a Frenchman who traveled in the US after the revolution, believed that it was the hardworking spirit of the Puritans that allowed the United States to become economically successful. The Protestant ethic, embodied by sects like the Puritans, is seen by many historians as a precursor to the capitalist system. What about Anne Bradstreet, the first female poet in America? What about Jonathan Edwards, who basically started the Great Awakening? What about the Mathers? John Winthrop? Anne Hutchinson? Roger Williams, who founded Providence? All were Puritans.

Their significance to establishment of government is not obsolete. The New England Town system is still in use by the New England states.

And by the way, supermanpansy, I speak from years of education as well.

[TheWereRabbit]

Originally Posted by Duderino

• The first flag of the United States was sewn in Philadelphia in 1777 by Betsy Ross.

The first flag of the US was flown at Prospect Hill in Somerville, Mass on new years day 1776. Betsy Ross sewed one closer to the modern flag but the first American flag was flown in Boston when Pennsylvania was still controlled by the British.

For the record, I am not trying to pick a fight and both cities are incredibly important to our nation's history.

[dem3456]

Originally Posted by TheWereRabbit

For the record, I am not trying to pick a fight and both cities are incredibly important to our nation's history.

I would like to second that sentiment. I understand that Philadelphia is extremely, extremely important to American history. However, I believe that the user with whom I am having a discourse is presenting fiction as fact.

[Easy Pick]

Pilgrim hats are funny.

[Libohove90]

Philadelphia was the capital and the largest city in the Thirteen Colonies. Although, Boston was where the revolution began, Philadelphia was the "center stage".

[Cuttlefish]

Boston, Philly are of a class of their own.