What States Are Considered Southern - Here's Your Sign (largest, place, life)

[TXperson]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

Deep South
Alabama
Mississippi
South Carolina
Georgia
Louisiana

Mid-South
Tennessee
Arkansas
Kentucky

Western South
Oklahoma
Texas

Coastal South
North Carolina
Virginia*
Florida*

Border South
West Virginia

Pretty much nails it. The Deep and Mid-South states are the 'real south' and tend stay true to their southern heritage. Outsiders will be surprised to find how 'non-southern' the rest of the states are.

[Spade]

Yeah I agree. I think you could add Maryland to a border Southern state. Venture away from the urban areas and you will see a very very different Maryland.

Deep South
-Mississippi
-Alabama
-Texas
-Louisiana
-Florida (above Orlando)
-South Carolina
-Georgia

Oh no and hardly anyone in Texas would agree with this as well. The only place where you can say Texas is deep South is along US 59 and points east. This excludes the Houston area so cut down to I-10 and points east as well. That makes up about a small percentage of the state. In other words, Texas is not a Deep South state. Texas is South. But not deep South and certainly not Southeast.

[solytaire]

Originally Posted by Spade

Yeah I agree. I think you could add Maryland to a border Southern state. Venture away from the urban areas and you will see a very very different Maryland.



Oh no and hardly anyone in Texas would agree with this as well. The only place where you can say Texas is deep South is along US 59 and points east. This excludes the Houston area so cut down to I-10 and points east as well. That makes up about a small percentage of the state. In other words, Texas is not a Deep South state. Texas is South. But not deep South and certainly not Southeast.

I dont know if I agree with the US 59 demarcation of the Texas extent of the Deep South...I think I 45 and east all the way up through Huntsville could easily be considered the western extent of the Deep South...Conroe to Huntsville, looks exactly like parts of Mississippi and Alabama I have driven through except that its a little flatter...Now by the time one hits Madisonville on I 45 any Deep south semblances have disappeared from what I could tell... And truthfully, Huntsville really looks and feels like a Deep South town...could just be the oppressive presence of the TDCJ, but it felt pretty Southern there.

[BergenCountyJohnny]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

Only states with overt Southern culture in the majority of the entire state: Deep South states and then some surrounding states. IMHO here's how I would rank 'em (which matches up pretty well with the Census, although my designations/groupings are a little different):

Deep South
Alabama
Mississippi
South Carolina
Georgia
Louisiana

Mid-South
Tennessee
Arkansas
Kentucky

Western South
Oklahoma
Texas

Coastal South
North Carolina
Virginia*
Florida*

Border South
West Virginia

*Florida and Virginia receive an asterick for not containing a majority of Southern culture due to high influx of transplants. However, in the areas where there is Southern culture in Florida (Pensacola to Lakeland) and Virginia (Richmond to southern border) the Southern culture is very strong/observable.

I think you did a great job!

Still, I would organize them a bit differently, like this:

Deep South
Alabama
Mississippi
Tennessee (except western part/Memphis area)
Louisiana

Mid-South
Arkansas
Missouri
Western Tennessee

Western South
Oklahoma
Texas

South East Coast
North Carolina
Virginia
South Carolina
Georgia
Northern Florida*

Border South
West Virginia
Kentucky
Maryland

*South Florida, from Tampa-Orlando-Melbourne area and south is not "The South" but rather an extension of the North. The Atlantic coast of South Florida (Melbourne and south to Miami and the keys) is Northeastern (NJ, NY, New England, etc.) while the Gulf coast is midwestern (Ohio, Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, etc.)

Tennessee to me is very much the deep south but definitely Memphis and the very western part are the "mid-south", as people there will say. It is a lot more like Arkansas than the rest of Tenn.

I very much liked the hospitality in the mid-south and the deep south. Seems the most "anti-Yankee" sentiment I get is from the South East Coast - Carolinas down to Jacksonville.

[LSU Tiger Z71]

Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny

Deep South

Tennessee (except western part/Memphis area)



Tennessee to me is very much the deep south but definitely Memphis and the very western part are the "mid-south", as people there will say. It is a lot more like Arkansas than the rest of Tenn.

I disagree. East TN is more mid-south and West TN is more deep south. Memphis is one of the most deep south cities in the US.. The crown jewel of the MS Delta.. The MS delta extends into the Arkansas side as well and the MS delta is one of the southern places. East TN is more Applachian and such.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by solytaire

I dont know if I agree with the US 59 demarcation of the Texas extent of the Deep South...I think I 45 and east all the way up through Huntsville could easily be considered the western extent of the Deep South...Conroe to Huntsville, looks exactly like parts of Mississippi and Alabama I have driven through except that its a little flatter...Now by the time one hits Madisonville on I 45 any Deep south semblances have disappeared from what I could tell... And truthfully, Huntsville really looks and feels like a Deep South town...could just be the oppressive presence of the TDCJ, but it felt pretty Southern there.

Really? I get a different vibe between Conroe and Lufkin. Even still, I have a hard time calling any part of Texas Deep South. Southern yes, but deep South is something I do not believe Texas is part of. In fact, I think only 4 states are what you should classify as Deep South and that's Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina. Sometimes Louisiana is mentioned as well. But those four are consistent in just every conversation of the phrase.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny

I think you did a great job!

Still, I would organize them a bit differently, like this:

Deep South
Alabama
Mississippi
Tennessee (except western part/Memphis area)
Louisiana

Mid-South
Arkansas
Missouri
Western Tennessee

Western South
Oklahoma
Texas

South East Coast
North Carolina
Virginia
South Carolina
Georgia
Northern Florida*

Border South
West Virginia
Kentucky
Maryland

*South Florida, from Tampa-Orlando-Melbourne area and south is not "The South" but rather an extension of the North. The Atlantic coast of South Florida (Melbourne and south to Miami and the keys) is Northeastern (NJ, NY, New England, etc.) while the Gulf coast is midwestern (Ohio, Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, etc.)

Tennessee to me is very much the deep south but definitely Memphis and the very western part are the "mid-south", as people there will say. It is a lot more like Arkansas than the rest of Tenn.

I very much liked the hospitality in the mid-south and the deep south. Seems the most "anti-Yankee" sentiment I get is from the South East Coast - Carolinas down to Jacksonville.

Missouri the Mid-South and not even the Border South? Now that is truly a bad grouping. The only part of Missouri that could be classified as truly Southern is Southeastern Missouri below the Ohio River and extreme South Central Missouri (Poplar Bluff area). Southwest Missouri is a mix of Western, Southern, and Midwestern. The rest of Southern Missouri (south of U.S. Highway 50 roughly) is a mix of Southern and Midwestern. The Northern half however is solidly Midwestern by modern definition. As for Delaware, Delaware is definitely not the South. My best friend's maternal side of the family is from there and they consider themselves Northeastern/Mid-Atlantic. My uncle has lived in Washington, D.C. and other parts of Maryland...he was raised in Joplin, Missouri and lived in Memphis for several years too. The only place he's ever lived that he considers truly Southern is Memphis. No part of Florida is Midwestern...Florida is basically a state in the Deep South that had lots of immigration from south of the U.S. border and from the Northern United States. But if you look hard enough pretty much anywhere in Florida, you will hear both Southern accents and find Southern culture. Miami is not Northeastern at all...it is more like Atlanta. How you could call a state like Florida Northern anyway is beyond me. Less than 100 years ago Florida was almost solidly Dixie...the Latin Americans and Northerners there today mixed with the Southern culture that already existed before the war. Not to mention, Florida legitimately seceded and supported the Confederacy. Tennessee is not the Deep South first off because of its mountainous terrain and history...it also did not immediately secede from the Union. States like Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina all seceded almost immediately upon the attack of Fort Sumter. While Tennessee is undoubtedly Southern, it has far more in common with North Carolina, Arkansas, and Kentucky. It did not feel at all like the Deep South to me, and I have driven all of Interstate 75, Interstate 40, and Interstate 24 through there multiple times. It is half Mississippi and Delta and half-Southern Appalachia. Mid-South is the best definition for it.

My definition:

Upper South:
Kentucky
West Virginia
Virginia

Mid-South:
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina

Deep South:
Louisiana
Mississippi
Alabama
Georgia
South Carolina
*Florida*

Western South (Southern Great Plains):
Texas
Oklahoma

As far as which criteria Florida currently falls into is hard to say, but it is undoubtedly a Southern state. I remember being on Sanibel Island and hearing some of the white natives talk, and they had unmistakably Southern accents. Deep South would've been a good definition less than half-a-century ago. Maryland and Delaware are part of the Mid-Atlantic, Missouri is part of the Midwest. If a term Border South did exist, I might be willing to include these three states in that, but would also be called "Border North", and would consist of extreme Southern Maryland, the Southern half of Missouri, Southern Illinois, Southern Indiana, and Southern Ohio below Cincinnati and Highway 50, as well as Northern Kentucky north of Louisville and Lexington and West Virginia starting around Clarksburg and going north. This area is roughly around where the transition zone from North is. The Southern end of it is around U.S. Highway 60 in all states except Virginia....around Fredericksburg is where Virginia becomes distinctly Southern.

[kingchef]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Missouri the Mid-South and not even the Border South? Now that is truly a bad grouping. The only part of Missouri that could be classified as truly Southern is Southeastern Missouri below the Ohio River and extreme South Central Missouri (Poplar Bluff area). Southwest Missouri is a mix of Western, Southern, and Midwestern. The rest of Southern Missouri (south of U.S. Highway 50 roughly) is a mix of Southern and Midwestern. The Northern half however is solidly Midwestern by modern definition. As for Delaware, Delaware is definitely not the South. My best friend's maternal side of the family is from there and they consider themselves Northeastern/Mid-Atlantic. My uncle has lived in Washington, D.C. and other parts of Maryland...he was raised in Joplin, Missouri and lived in Memphis for several years too. The only place he's ever lived that he considers truly Southern is Memphis. No part of Florida is Midwestern...Florida is basically a state in the Deep South that had lots of immigration from south of the U.S. border and from the Northern United States. But if you look hard enough pretty much anywhere in Florida, you will hear both Southern accents and find Southern culture. Miami is not Northeastern at all...it is more like Atlanta. How you could call a state like Florida Northern anyway is beyond me. Less than 100 years ago Florida was almost solidly Dixie...the Latin Americans and Northerners there today mixed with the Southern culture that already existed before the war. Not to mention, Florida legitimately seceded and supported the Confederacy. Tennessee is not the Deep South first off because of its mountainous terrain and history...it also did not immediately secede from the Union. States like Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina all seceded almost immediately upon the attack of Fort Sumter. While Tennessee is undoubtedly Southern, it has far more in common with North Carolina, Arkansas, and Kentucky. It did not feel at all like the Deep South to me, and I have driven all of Interstate 75, Interstate 40, and Interstate 24 through there multiple times. It is half Mississippi and Delta and half-Southern Appalachia. Mid-South is the best definition for it.

My definition:

Upper South:
Kentucky
West Virginia
Virginia

Mid-South:
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina

Deep South:
Louisiana
Mississippi
Alabama
Georgia
South Carolina
*Florida*

Western South (Southern Great Plains):
Texas
Oklahoma

As far as which criteria Florida currently falls into is hard to say, but it is undoubtedly a Southern state. I remember being on Sanibel Island and hearing some of the white natives talk, and they had unmistakably Southern accents. Deep South would've been a good definition less than half-a-century ago. Maryland and Delaware are part of the Mid-Atlantic, Missouri is part of the Midwest. If a term Border South did exist, I might be willing to include these three states in that, but would also be called "Border North", and would consist of extreme Southern Maryland, the Southern half of Missouri, Southern Illinois, Southern Indiana, and Southern Ohio below Cincinnati and Highway 50, as well as Northern Kentucky north of Louisville and Lexington and West Virginia starting around Clarksburg and going north. This area is roughly around where the transition zone from North is. The Southern end of it is around U.S. Highway 60 in all states except Virginia....around Fredericksburg is where Virginia becomes distinctly Southern.

i can't agree w/ most of this post. geographicaaly, it just makes assumptions that are incorrect. culturally, it does the same. memphis is, actually, a beginning point for entry into the deep south. i don't think memphians or arkansans consider memphis to be related at all to arkansas. in fact, sometimes i wonder if memphians look to the west and see nothing but denver. a strange distance exists between arkansas and memphis. mississippi, however, is a different story. using some of the paste methods in the above post, one would end up putting chicago in memphis, memphis in chicago, and detroit in both chciago and memphis.

i would be interested in hearing an advanced argument on the reasons mountain terrain precludes tn's war stance position. georgia, south carolina, and alabama contain much terrain similar to tn.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by kingchef

i can't agree w/ most of this post. geographicaaly, it just makes assumptions that are incorrect. culturally, it does the same. memphis is, actually, a beginning point for entry into the deep south. i don't think memphians or arkansans consider memphis to be related at all to arkansas. in fact, sometimes i wonder if memphians look to the west and see nothing but denver. a strange distance exists between arkansas and memphis. mississippi, however, is a different story. using some of the paste methods in the above post, one would end up putting chicago in memphis, memphis in chicago, and detroit in both chciago and memphis.

i would be interested in hearing an advanced argument on the reasons mountain terrain precludes tn's war stance position. georgia, south carolina, and alabama contain much terrain similar to tn.

You are the first person on here to ever come up with that Chicago-Memphis Detroit in both Chicago and Memphis criteria. My thinking is pretty clear-cut, how you came to that conclusion is absolutely beyond me. Chicago and Detroit are both Midwestern cities. Memphis is a Southern city. The only thing that connects those three cities is the Great Migration, in which places like those two and other Midwestern cities like St. Louis and Kansas City benefited from blues and barbecue brought up from those places. Only Northwest Georgia, extreme Northern Alabama, and Northwestern South Carolina have terrain similar to Tennessee's. The rest of these states have typical Deep South terrain and culture. As far as making assumptions that are incorrect...these are not assumptions. These are based on actual observation of not only me but natives of these areas. It's also based on historical fact. As far as telling me my argument isn't advanced, it's more advanced than your's. Mountain terrain precludes war stances on positions because slavery wasn't a necessity in those areas. Agriculture is impossible in those terrains...the soil is too rocky to grow much of anything. Also, many of the people in those mountainous areas were Scotch/Irish immigrants who were opposed to slavery. Memphis probably does have a lot in common with Northern Mississippi, but Arkansas is right across the damn river, you can't pretend Memphis has nothing in common with it. I hear more people from Arkansas relating to Tennessee than I do to Louisiana and Mississippi. Memphis is more like Little Rock and Nashville and Charlotte and other mid-South cities than it is like Jackson, New Orleans, Birmingham, and Atlanta. It is not the Deep South. It is the mid-South. It has elements of both the Upper and Deep South. I have relatives from both Louisiana and South Carolina...Tennessee is a Southern state, but doesn't feel nearly as Southern as the latter two. I've been visiting both Louisiana and South Carolina for over 10 years, so don't underestimate my judgment. I have yet to hear one specific fact from you stating how my geographical and cultural assumptions are incorrect either. When you've been to every state in the South multiple times, not to mention 40 different ones in the lower 48 and explored them all in detail, maybe I'll find you to be more credible. I've been to the entire Midwest, all of the Great Plains, much of the Mountain West, much of the Desert Southwest, some of the west coast, almost all of the East Coast except for New England, and all of the South. I don't just throw assumptions out there. I've had a chance to talk with many locals from all these areas and gathered more than enough information on my own to form my judgment. I definitely sensed upon entering Memphis that I was no longer in the Deep South going north on Interstate 55 from Natchez, Mississippi. Going south on Interstate 55 from Memphis I just sensed a huge change. I don't know how you read my post, but it sure shouldn't lead you to jump to the conclusions you came up with.

[Mike1306]

Originally Posted by ajf131

The rest of these states have typical Deep South terrain and culture.

Could you please explain the typical Deep South terrain to me.

I see you mention your vast experience after making this statement about typical terrain and culture so this should be interesting.