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REALLY...I had no idea about New Jersey still having slaves during the Civil War...very interesting stuff! I know that extreme Southern Illinois practiced slavery...cotton grew and still does grow way down there at the southern tip around Cairo. Marion, Illinois even tried to secede from the rest of Illinois at one point but was convinced not to.
Yup, people sleep on Northern slavery. New York had slavery until 1827.
Also, if you notice the information I put up about the 13th amendment, Kentucky didn't ratify it until 1976 and Mississippi until 1995! Delaware did in 1901.
Yes, it would. Everybody - "oh the sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home......"
My mama was from Middlesboro and Daddy's from Harrodsburg, KY.
No debates about Kentucky. You went into far more specific detail about the mountain south, but nonetheless, we both established that much of the mountain south/Upper South did not have crops that made slavery a necessity. However, certain states like Missouri had crops that weren't even Southern and for the most part still doesn't. Tobacco and cotton grow in maybe only eight counties in the far southern part of the state. We also both established that Tennessee did not immediately secede from the Union,which the Deep South states did. The most generic use of the term Deep South pertains to those states that economically depended on slavery to the utmost and seceded immediately without waiting for diplomatic negotiation. That is not however, a prerequisite to be Southern. If you think I'm arguing against Tennessee being Southern, I'm not. Whether Upper South, Mid-South, or Deep South, any one of these criteria classifies a state as Southern. However, the historic border states are called that for a reason...because they cannot completely be compartmentalized as Southern states. Some were Southern enough before the Civil War and after to be called Southern, such as Kentucky. No border state ever legitimately seceded, and all backed the Union during the Civil War, although with West Virginia 2/3 of the state supported the Confederacy...the government was confined to Wheeling, in the Northern Panhandle, during that time. In post-Civil War times, Missouri, Maryland, and Delaware all greatly benefited from things such as the Great Migration for starters. Also, Southern dialect does not exist in the majority of these three states. Politically since the Civil War, all have either been swing states and today Maryland and Delaware lean decisively to the left, unlike the Southern states. North Carolina voting democratic was very unusual, and even Virginia was too, as both these states have been historically red. Arkansas voting blue when Clinton was President not surprisingly had to do with him being from there and being a former governor. You saw the same thing with Bush from Texas, McCain from Arizona among others. Bottom-line, to simply say this one article is the final deciding factor is bogus. If you agree with it, fine, go ahead. But it gets many things wrong, first and foremost by saying the U.S. Census Bureau considers Missouri to be Southern, which is absolutely the furthest thing from the truth. If you don't believe me, read it here. It even goes on to explain why it chose the states it chose, and I have no access to modify this article. I can give countless other sources if I wanted to.
Sir or Madame - The thread was started to establish what states are Southern. Missouri was not named in the article as a Southern state. If it included an error as to what States the Census Bureaus groups in it's Southern region polls, I profusely and sincerely apologize for the obvious aggravation and irritation this has caused you. Let's stand the author, type-setter or reader up and slap them ten times with a wet noodle. Will that make you feel better? That error was not critical in the articles establishment of what in modern times are Southern states, but was used as an aside reference of interest only. Yet, you want to hang your hat there at every opportunity. I think you can get over the error, can't you? The thread was started to establish the South today. If you'd like to disect each states credentials or how Southern or not they are, start a thread asking that. I'm sure you'll have plenty of participants. As I pointed out, this isn't done with the North, just the Southern and border states. It seems many people are bent on making as many Southern states the least Southern they can. I don't know why it makes them feel better to do that, but for some strange reason it does. I never heard my Louisiana family tell my Kentucky family "we're more Southern than you, ha, ha, ha," or my Kentucky family say to my Tennessee family "Well, we may have some Southern tendencies, but, thankfully, we're not as Southern as you." Thusly, I refer you once again to the comment from Heritage of the South. That's how most Southerns feel about eachother whether other people understand it, like it or approve of it or not.
And with regard to Kentucky, what was it you think I should have said? I was responding to her query about "My Old Kentucky Home." And as a shout out, as it were, to a Kentuckian, letting her know of my family's connection to the state.
Again, I apologize if I didn't catch an error with regard to Missouri and the Census Bureau in the article I posted. Can you possibly forgive me?
No debates about Kentucky. You went into far more specific detail about the mountain south, but nonetheless, we both established that much of the mountain south/Upper South did not have crops that made slavery a necessity. However, certain states like Missouri had crops that weren't even Southern and for the most part still doesn't. Tobacco and cotton grow in maybe only eight counties in the far southern part of the state. We also both established that Tennessee did not immediately secede from the Union,which the Deep South states did. The most generic use of the term Deep South pertains to those states that economically depended on slavery to the utmost and seceded immediately without waiting for diplomatic negotiation. That is not however, a prerequisite to be Southern. If you think I'm arguing against Tennessee being Southern, I'm not. Whether Upper South, Mid-South, or Deep South, any one of these criteria classifies a state as Southern. However, the historic border states are called that for a reason...because they cannot completely be compartmentalized as Southern states. Some were Southern enough before the Civil War and after to be called Southern, such as Kentucky. No border state ever legitimately seceded, and all backed the Union during the Civil War, although with West Virginia 2/3 of the state supported the Confederacy...the government was confined to Wheeling, in the Northern Panhandle, during that time. In post-Civil War times, Missouri, Maryland, and Delaware all greatly benefited from things such as the Great Migration for starters. Also, Southern dialect does not exist in the majority of these three states. Politically since the Civil War, all have either been swing states and today Maryland and Delaware lean decisively to the left, unlike the Southern states. North Carolina voting democratic was very unusual, and even Virginia was too, as both these states have been historically red. Arkansas voting blue when Clinton was President not surprisingly had to do with him being from there and being a former governor. You saw the same thing with Bush from Texas, McCain from Arizona among others. Bottom-line, to simply say this one article is the final deciding factor is bogus. If you agree with it, fine, go ahead. But it gets many things wrong, first and foremost by saying the U.S. Census Bureau considers Missouri to be Southern, which is absolutely the furthest thing from the truth. If you don't believe me, read it here. It even goes on to explain why it chose the states it chose, and I have no access to modify this article. I can give countless other sources if I wanted to.
I never heard my Louisiana family tell my Kentucky family "we're more Southern than you, ha, ha, ha," or my Kentucky family say to my Tennessee family "Well, we may have some Southern tendencies, but, thankfully, we're not as Southern as you." Thusly, I refer you once again to the comment from Heritage of the South.
This here is why I don't like wikipedia. It says in that article that much if Kentucky is in the corn belt, yet I found this
and according to it, we aren't. I trust the EPA far more then wikipedia
Well Missouri is considered Midwestern by the Census Bureau, regardless of what wikipedia says. I have to admit I don't like that map either, simply because all of Northern Missouri, including St. Louis, Columbia, and Kansas City, lies within the Corn Belt/Northern Plains area, and virtually all of Southern Illinois does too. As far as the Southeastern Temperate Forested Plains and Hills, that is an absolutely terrible map, the boundaries don't even make sense. And I can say for certain that Missouri does not lie in any of those areas except for the Southeast portion of the state. Louisville and most of Northern Kentucky lie in the Ohio Valley and at the Southern end of the Northern Plains. Missouri outside of the Ozark range resembles Iowa and Illinois and Kansas for the most part, and in the far Southeastern portion resembles the Mississippi Delta. So as far as that map, goes, yes I don't agree. However, you shouldn't shoot a source down just because of one map.
all i owe that i know i owe ioway...cornbread fed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymomof3
This here is why I don't like wikipedia. It says in that article that much if Kentucky is in the corn belt, yet I found this
and according to it, we aren't. I trust the EPA far more then wikipedia
unfortunately, wikipedia, just like some of the posters in this forum, see many things through rose-colored glasses and a distorted reality. much of what it reports is erroneous and woefully inaccurate.
Just so y'all all know, the article I posted to start this thread did not come from Wikipedia. It was a university press that gives limited permission to use the article, which I thoroughly read before posting.
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all i owe that i know i owe ioway...cornbread fed...
