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First- California
Arguably Second- Texas, Michigan or Virginia
Fifth- North Carolina
Just a disclaimer: this is a post from someone who has actually been closely keeping up with university standings on academic fronts for the past couple of years. This also means I will not be judging how good a public system is based on how many campuses it has, and I don't really know why some have pointed out the number of campuses as if it makes them suddenly better in some way:
California is the best. They have shown us this over and over again in rankings. They are the most well-established, well-funded, and well-respected public system in the world. They have a massive population feeding into a relatively small number of UC system schools, so they can choose the best students to ensure their reputation remains strong. They are very expensive for publics, but there are still plenty willing to pay.
On to the six mentioned and one that should have been mentioned:
North Carolina: UNC - Chapel Hill is one of the best public universities in the world, with high overall rankings. It's individual program rankings often fail to explain the high rank, though. NC State is not even worth mentioning, because as far as recruiters and professors are concerned, it wouldn't stack up to either UT or A&M.
Michigan: This one is a very good candidate for second place because Michigan is arguably the second best public university. They have a very established university with strong ties to top employers and even Wall Street for their business school. They, like UTexas, have some top 10 undergraduate colleges like business and engineering, but also have the strong top 10 graduate programs to round it out.
New York: The SUNY system has absolutely zero top public campuses. No offense to any graduates from SUNY, but the programs are "good" at best. No SUNY campus has a strong enough reputation to attract truly top-notch students, faculty and recruiters. There is no way you can argue this is the second best state for public education, and I'm amazed that it's even an option and shocked to see it's the most voted-for besides Texas.
Ohio: OSU is above average for a public flagship U. It has more pull for top-notch students, faculty and recruiters than SUNY, but falls far short of universities like UT, A&M, Michigan or UNC. This shouldn't even be an option, but at least people recognize that it shouldn't.
Pennsylvania: I hope you realize that the University of Pennsylvania is technically a private school. Penn state is really the only thing worth looking at here. I know it's overall ranking is tied with UT, but like UNC, they don't have the program rankings to back it up. They fall short of both UT and UNC in their ability to send grads to places like Wall Street as well.
Texas - UT has some programs that are absolute gems. Their accounting program has been first in the nation for something like 20 years for undergrad and I don't think it's been out of the top 3 for grad in that same period. The business school as a whole places students better than any public but Berkeley and Michigan, on par with Virginia and significantly better than some comparison privates like USC. They also have a top 10 engineering program and a top 5 architecture school. That said, the liberal arts and natural sciences are less than elite and often (as seems to be the case) cause in-staters to think less of the university as a whole. However, even from these colleges emerge great programs like a top 10 computer science program. Another reason Texas is a good choice is that there are two flagship universities. Texas A&M doesn't carry it's reputation as well outside of Texas, but in-state applicants often view the two on equal footing.
Virginia - UVa is well-known for law and business. It has a reputation in the traditional undergraduate colleges as well, for which is it very strong. However, it does lack a presence in the technical fields such as engineering, in which Texas, Michigan and Berkeley dominate. These fields are vital for a university in this day and age and Virginia's ranking should be significantly decreased if this weakness were taken into account more appropriately. It also fails to live up to rankings in placement in top jobs. For example, UT sends comparable numbers into exclusive fields such as consulting and investment banking, yet is ranked twice as far down the overall list.
This survey should have included: Texas, Michigan and Virginia. UNC would round out the top 5, but would not be a candidate for second place. I'd have a hard time ranking these individually because they have managed to show such different strengths that it is hard to define an overall winner.
A note on Wisconsin and Illinois, while these two might be better than the likes of SUNY, this does not make them anywhere close to competitive for the second place spot. Even top Wisconsin grads will complain about problems with not going to a university at which the top companies recruit when looking at the very same jobs as UT students. Illinois' claims to fame are accounting and engineering. It's known as being the "next best" thing to UT for accounting, though, and it's program strengths are so lopsided they make UT look well-rounded (and it's probably the lopsided strengths of certain programs at UT versus others that hinder Texas' reputation more than anything.)
Last edited by openedskittles; 01-29-2010 at 10:36 PM..
Did the New Yorkers invade the Texas forums? There is absolutely no way New York is even in the top 5 for public education. The SUNYs are decent state schools and nothing more. The offering of top jobs you can get coming out of UT and A&M runs circles around any SUNY campus.
Believe it or not, the SUNY system is the largest system of colleges and universities in the World. They have close to 500,000 students I think. But it is divided into 60+ colleges so you do not hear about each one college that much.
Pennsylvania: I hope you realize that the University of Pennsylvania is technically a private school. Penn state is really the only thing worth looking at here. I know it's overall ranking is tied with UT, but like UNC, they don't have the program rankings to back it up. They fall short of both UT and UNC in their ability to send grads to places like Wall Street as well.
Actually just to clarify PSU, Pitt and Temple are basically on equal footing relative to their state affiliation and should be in the equation for PA
Also you are right Penn (U of P) is private, Ivy and better than of the state schools you discussed, maybe UVA can be in the same discussion
Believe it or not, the SUNY system is the largest system of colleges and universities in the World. They have close to 500,000 students I think. But it is divided into 60+ colleges so you do not hear about each one college that much.
SUNY isn't the largest in the world by any means (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indira_...pen_University for example). However, the University of Phoenix has over 400,000 students as well. Unless you're suggesting SUNY is on par with the University of Phoenix, you don't have a point.
SUNY isn't the largest by any means. However, the University of Phoenix is the largest private university in North America. By your logic, it must be the best university in North America.
The options should have been Michigan, Virginia, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Texas, North Carolina, and Florida as all of these states have multiple stand-out schools. As an aside, should military academies count as public schools? Both West Point and Annapolis (among others) are technically fantastic schools.
First- California
Arguably Second- Texas, Michigan or Virginia
Fifth- North Carolina
Just a disclaimer: this is a post from someone who has actually been closely keeping up with university standings on academic fronts for the past couple of years. This also means I will not be judging how good a public system is based on how many campuses it has, and I don't really know why some have pointed out the number of campuses as if it makes them suddenly better in some way:
My curiosity is piqued Oh Wise All-Knowing University Rankings One. What is thouest background so that "closely keeping up with university standards on academic fronts" suffices as expertise to lay down these unassailable analytical truths with respect to the quality of public universities? Are you a reporter for The Chronicle of Higher Education? A board member of the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board? Employed with the Department of Education? Public university system administrator? What are your sources in support of these "rankings"? Pray tell, surely you aren't merely a UT Austin student writing in earnest defense of his/her beloved behemoth institution, are you? For how could that make you an expert or reputable source on these often contested matters? How untoward of me. Howsoever objective and unsubstantiated your methodology, we should just take you at your word.
You mention "not judging a public system" upon "how many campuses it has", but the Texas systems you reference (of which I am a product) have only TWO public universities which are arguably of international recognition, much less national recognition. The UT & A&M Systems are large, but outside of their two flagships (detestable word), a regrettable number of the satellite institutions remain mired in regional obscurity. Bear in mind I'm not speaking of particular programs residing within the flagship institutions, I refer to the flagship institutions in toto. I'm hard-pressed to believe UT & A&M alone somehow exceed the quality of an entire university system such as that of SUNY.
I'm not sure why you assumed New Yorkers had "invaded" a Texas forum as I believe this topic was under the General US forums in City vs. City, was it not?
Also, Penn is not "technically" a private school. It is very much a private school!
Lastly, throughout your expert post you mistakenly use the contraction it's in mistake of the possessive its. Very common. Nevertheless, I'm sure in your position of influence in higher education research and administration you have an astute editorial assistant who aids in the prevention of such grammatical mishaps, so no worries! Sounds smashing!
SUNY isn't the largest in the world by any means (Indira Gandhi National Open University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for example). However, the University of Phoenix has over 400,000 students as well. Unless you're suggesting SUNY is on par with the University of Phoenix, you don't have a point.
In case you didn't know, the University of Phoenix is a for-profit university. Normal people think of universities as respectable, non-profit institutions not a place that will drop their pants just to make a buck for Wall Street.
I need to say SUNY is a respectable system. I first heard of them from their ads in the Thruway's rest stops. CUNY should be included since SUNY is the system outside New York City.
Texas should do some housekeeping and try to facilitate mergers between the six systems into three or four such as Tech into A&M as originally planned and UH into UT.
Believe it or not, the SUNY system is the largest system of colleges and universities in the World. They have close to 500,000 students I think. But it is divided into 60+ colleges so you do not hear about each one college that much.
California community college system is 2.7 million strong and that's just one system in the state. I know it's different from a state and university but you have to admit that's A pretty impressive number.
Last edited by kcee510; 01-30-2010 at 03:46 AM..
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