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Denver mayberry? Please! St. Louis has always been one of the worst crime metros in the country! Don't try to play it up like it has not been! Sure there are a few areas that up the numbers. Fix it! Been that way for years, with no results. Look at the poll results already. Landslide. Lower cost of living because it is LESS DESIRABLE. Hell the only time my family ever stopped to visit the Arch and museum underneath it (cool place, did not even know of the museum) our vehicle was broke into, and all of our Christmas gifts stolen, and our dumb dog was left to wander around. You can defend the lou all you want, but it CANNOT compete with Denver as a whole. Sure it has some better parts, but not overall!
The whole metro? No. These numbers are from a few years ago. It's comparing the violent crime in metro areas. 2006 Metro Area Violent Crime Rates
St. Louis is 69. Far from one of the worst. In fact, my metro area (Memphis) is listed as the worst, but I never have any problems here because I stay in the right areas.
Denver is further down the list at 152. No one expected St. Louis metro to be safer than Denver's, but it's not nearly as crime ridden as everyone thinks. There are pleanty of well-regarded metros that have higher crime rates than St. Louis, like San Francisco, Philly, Houston, KC, and Nashville, but no one ever brings up crime when talking about these cities. People don't seem to understand that the city of St. Louis is a very small part of the whole metro. And if crime was the big determing factor, then we should all move to Logan Utah
Denver has more high-rises and a better skyline, even though St.Louis has the Gateway Arch. St.Louis is more violent and Denver is more health minded and has less crime and gangs. Both do have nice natural settings. Denver
Sounds Awesome! I love seeing beautiful animals caged! For free too!
Then I guess you hate all zoos? Might as well let all endangered animals go extinct in the wild, rather than try to increase their populations in captivity.
One thing I think people forget is that St. Louis City (which is where the crime stats are from) is 62 square miles. Denver city is 154 square miles, more than twice the size of St. Louis. So of course there will be a crime difference. If you added St. Louis inner-ring suburbs, the crime levels would go way down.
I'm sorry for people who have bad experiences in St. Louis, but sometimes stuff like that happens in big cities. St. Louis isn't alone in that. Sometimes you need thick skin and street smarts to live in the city. Any time you park your car anywhere, you take a chance. I live near a town of 15,000 and a friend of mine got her car stolen. She left the keys in it and ran inside a store for a minute. She came back out and the car was gone. You may not have been that careless, but car break-ins seem fairly common in most cities. That's not just a St. Louis problem. That's a society problem. It can happen in the most sterile suburb as well.
Look, Denver may be a fine city. I've never been there. But you have people who have no real experience in St. Louis (if they have been there at all) looking at numbers and saying what a bad city it's been. Crime numbers are not exactly black-and-white when it comes to a whole city, especially a whole metro. St. Louis metro is pretty safe.
Denver has also grown by over 100k people since 1980. It peaked in 1970. St. Louis has slowly begun growing again, but St. Louis, like many industrial cities, St. Louis peaked about 1960 and has been sharply declining since. Decreased tax base certainly makes a different in crime.
Denver
Founded 1858-11-22, as Denver City, K.T.[2]
Incorporated 1861-11-07, as Denver City, C.T.[3]
Consolidated 1902-11-15, as the City and County of Denver
St. Louis
Settled 1703
Founded 1764
Incorporated 1822
St. Louis has had Almost 100 years longer to develop. This also means a unique set of problems develop.
Denver is also a trendy city right now. St. Louis is not. That's another reason the poll is so skewed. People love Denver right now. In 20 years, people might forget about Denver and love another city. I don't know why, but most cities fall out of the public's favor at some point.
There's also a difference in demographics
Races in St. Louis:
I was going to let this lie but oh well.
1) You've never been to Denver. enough said
2) I would think a declining population would help crime fighting. Less murders to solve.
3) Yes everywhere has crime, STL just has a lot more.
4) People voted for Denver because it is better.
5) Even if there was no crime Denver would still be better
6) I don't know where you are going with the demographics and its relation to crime levels in STL but I hope it wasn't meant in the racist way it sounded.
7) It was posted that our COL was higher as a negative but know you posted that we make more money. hmmm
I was going to let this lie but oh well.
1) You've never been to Denver. enough said
2) I would think a declining population would help crime fighting. Less murders to solve.
3) Yes everywhere has crime, STL just has a lot more.
4) People voted for Denver because it is better.
5) Even if there was no crime Denver would still be better
6) I don't know where you are going with the demographics and its relation to crime levels in STL but I hope it wasn't meant in the racist way it sounded.
7) It was posted that our COL was higher as a negative but know you posted that we make more money. hmmm
My response...
1. Yes I have
2. Nope. The people that move out are in the higher income bracket. People in poverty cannot afford to move
3. Crime in STL is isolated in a few neighborhoods on the northside. STL city is rather safe,
4. Nope. Because its popular right not. Most people that have commented haven;t even been to STL
5. Makes no sense
Not meant racist at all, but, generally, cities that are higher on the crime levels are also higher in the percentage of minorities. And generally, higher crime areas are mostly made up of minorities. My point was that, statistically, cities with higher minority populations have higher crime.
Sorry if that sounds racist. Wasn't meant that way. There are majority black cities with low crime and there are majority white cities with high crime. But I do think the demographics make a difference.
Whether you agree with the article or not, it brings up some interesting questions.
I don't think St. Louis having a majority-black population is a bad thing. But I think it does make a difference in the overall crime rates and income rates. You can't throw crime numbers into it without examining everything.
Seems to me that cities like Denver, Austin, and Portland haven't had to face the past racial tension and the advanced decay that cities like St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh have.
Racial demographics aren't everything about a city, but they can sometimes help explain a city's past and even its current problems. Unfortunately, even today, race and economic status are sometimes (not always) connected.
Last edited by STLCardsBlues1989; 01-05-2010 at 07:14 PM..
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$34,078Missouri: 
$46,867
