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Ok. It is okay that you think US News rankings are unassailable. I don't think there is any evidence that a majority of employers base hiring decisions on the US News rankings. Those rankings are an opinion based on what US News thinks is important.
Do you have any independent knowledge of MSU? Are you saying that the MSU professors are not as good at teaching as professors at the colleges that you think are superior? How do you know this?
I never had any employer ask me what the average entering freshmen GPA and SAT scores are at the university that I attended. US News makes that a big deal in their rankings.
The US News rankings has UNC and William and Mary ranked over universities that have engineering and architecture programs. I think most of the universities ranked after William and Mary have more name recognition.
It has a university like Clemson ranked much higher than similar universities like Oregon State and Iowa State. I know engineering employers view colleges like Oregon State, Iowa State and Clemson as being similar colleges.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 02-21-2018 at 11:02 AM..
Ok. It is okay that you think US News rankings are unassailable. I don't think there is any evidence that a majority of employers base hiring decisions on the US News rankings. Those rankings are an opinion based on what US News thinks is important.
Do you have any independent knowledge of MSU? Are you saying that the MSU professors are not as good at teaching as professors at the colleges that you think are superior? How do you know this?
I never had any employer ask me what the average entering freshmen GPA and SAT scores are at the university that I attended. US News makes that a big deal in their rankings.
The US News rankings has UNC and William and Mary ranked over universities that have engineering and architecture programs. I think most of the universities ranked after William and Mary have more name recognition.
It has a university like Clemson ranked much higher than similar universities like Oregon State and Iowa State. I know engineering employers view colleges like Oregon State, Iowa State and Clemson as being similar colleges.
Are you an MSU grad or what? I think it's fairly common knowledge what the best schools for business degrees are, and MSU is not on the list. You seem to like to disparage "a magazine" but like it or not, the US News rankings are pretty much the gold standard. I disagree with some of US News' rankings. Penn State, for example, seems to know what to do to get so highly ranked, and yet that huge school only has one alum who ever won a Nobel Prize, and that person didn't go to grad school there; no faculty members who have won a Nobel. US News is using GPA and SAT scores to show quality of applicant a school takes. No, an employer won't ask an applicant. Most employers have a pretty good idea of the quality of schools their applicants come from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ies_(21st-50th)
And you want to talk about "name recognition"? What name recognition does Montana State have?
Ok, but I note again that you did not provide any evidence that most employers are making hiring decisions based on the US News. I think US News influences students and/or their parents far more than employers.
Your 'common knowledge' appears to be based on US News. How would you know anything about these colleges that you didn't attend if you were not relying on US News or some other ranking.
I don't know what kind of name recognition MSU has but I see no reason to believe that employers are unaware of the largest university in Montana. It is much larger than W&M.
I don't understand what the Nobel prize winners has to do with the quality of a university. That sounds like an individual award, not a college one.
Penn State is one of the largest engineering programs in the country and engineers are smart people.
I don't think there is a difference b/t an applicant that has a 3.0 and one that has a 3.5 or higher coming out of high school. Many people do better in college than high school because they can focus on their interest and they are more mature and focused on getting a good job.
Looks like Montana State's enrollment has skyrocketed in recent years. I don't think that would be the case if the university did not have a good academic reputation.
I don't understand why MSU's business program would be inferior to another business program if it is accredited.
These college comparison discussions are weird to me because the ability of the professors to teach is basically never mentioned.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 02-21-2018 at 12:54 PM..
RE: the schools in question. They are so geographically diverse and very different in feel! How far does he want to be from home? How liberal is he (Boulder vs. Miami)? Does he care about sports? Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan State are really big sports schools, Miami, Montana State, and Colorado less so. Is cost a factor?
My sister is a Miami grad and her daughter goes there currently. I also spent some time there with my daughter; she was very strongly considering it but ended up at Wisconsin. It has a renowned business school; my niece is a senior and has a job lined up at a very well-known company in Chicago, and she had great internships each summer. Miami grads tend to stay in the Midwest (especially Chicago it seems) and some to the East Coast. It's an absolutely gorgeous campus with a very classic, East Coast looking vibe. Campus with lots to do but is isolated. It's also more of a conservative, preppy study body (commonly nicknamed "JCrew U") and Greek life is a big deal, although my niece isn't either and has had a good experience there. I think that if someone didn't know better, they might think it's a private college.
Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State probably have the strongest national reputations of the schools on his list, although you could not pay me to live in East Lansing or State College (Columbus is good).
Ok, but I note again that you did not provide any evidence that most employers are making hiring decisions based on the US News. I think US News influences students and/or their parents far more than employers.
Your 'common knowledge' appears to be based on US News. How would you know anything about these colleges that you didn't attend if you were not relying on US News or some other ranking.
I don't know what kind of name recognition MSU has but I see no reason to believe that employers are unaware of the largest university in Montana. It is much larger than W&M.
I don't understand what the Nobel prize winners has to do with the quality of a university. That sounds like an individual award, not a college one.
Penn State is one of the largest engineering programs in the country and engineers are smart people.
I don't think there is a difference b/t an applicant that has a 3.0 and one that has a 3.5 or higher coming out of high school. Many people do better in college than high school because they can focus on their interest and they are more mature and focused on getting a good job.
Looks like Montana State's enrollment has skyrocketed in recent years. I don't think that would be the case if the university did not have a good academic reputation.
I don't understand why MSU's business program would be inferior to another business program if it is accredited.
These college comparison discussions are weird to me because the ability of the professors to teach is basically never mentioned.
I didn't read all the posts. I find it interesting that many best college and University rankings are based on potential earnings after graduation. I've come across many careers earning salary ranking website from the University after graduation. Here is one. MONEY
The problem with looking at earnings is different occupations have different payscales. To lump all careers together doesn't make any sense to me. In general, a more STEM oriented college will have graduates earning an higher average salary.
The early career earnings do not factor in cost of living.
You see the California schools ranked high but California is a very expensive place to live and employers tend to pay more in CA than employers in other places with lower COL.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 02-22-2018 at 03:31 PM..
Ok, but I note again that you did not provide any evidence that most employers are making hiring decisions based on the US News. I think US News influences students and/or their parents far more than employers.
They make those decisions when they recruit at top-ranked schools, and make job offers before graduation, whereas graduates from lower ranked (or unranked) institutions have to pound the pavement to find jobs.
RE: the schools in question. They are so geographically diverse and very different in feel! How far does he want to be from home? How liberal is he (Boulder vs. Miami)? Does he care about sports? Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan State are really big sports schools, Miami, Montana State, and Colorado less so. Is cost a factor?
My sister is a Miami grad and her daughter goes there currently. I also spent some time there with my daughter; she was very strongly considering it but ended up at Wisconsin. It has a renowned business school; my niece is a senior and has a job lined up at a very well-known company in Chicago, and she had great internships each summer. Miami grads tend to stay in the Midwest (especially Chicago it seems) and some to the East Coast. It's an absolutely gorgeous campus with a very classic, East Coast looking vibe. Campus with lots to do but is isolated. It's also more of a conservative, preppy study body (commonly nicknamed "JCrew U") and Greek life is a big deal, although my niece isn't either and has had a good experience there. I think that if someone didn't know better, they might think it's a private college.
Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State probably have the strongest national reputations of the schools on his list, although you could not pay me to live in East Lansing or State College (Columbus is good).
We agree on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemVegas
The problem with looking at earnings is different occupations have different payscales. To lump all careers together doesn't make any sense to me. In general, a more STEM oriented college will have graduates earning an higher average salary.
The early career earnings do not factor in cost of living.
You see the California schools ranked high but California is a very expensive place to live and employers tend to pay more in CA than employers in other places with lower COL.
You can always find something wrong with every metric.
That's true. And you can also always find something wrong with skepticism of magazine produced college rankings.
There are a lot of people on this forum who act like these rankings cannot be questioned.
If you think that I'm looking at it the wrong way, can you explain why?
Do you disagree that different occupations pay different salary ranges? I think it would be more useful to see the salaries of grads in specific occupations.
Is cost of living not relevant when comparing salaries?
Last edited by ClemVegas; 02-22-2018 at 04:19 PM..
That's true. And you can also always find something wrong with skepticism of magazine produced college rankings.
There are a lot of people on this forum who act like these rankings cannot be questioned.
If you think that I'm looking at it the wrong way, can you explain why?
You're just saying "the rankings of a magazine (supposedly a bad thing) aren't reliable". You have given no evidence, or even rationale.
Do you disagree that different occupations pay different salary ranges? I think it would be more useful to see the salaries of grads in specific occupations.
Is cost of living not relevant when comparing salaries?
No. A salary is a salary. And it's irrelevant anyway as that is not part of the ranking criteria.
Mine in blue.
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