Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am wondering how much “entitlement” feelings are coming into the notion that a college degree guarantees you a great job.
There are no absolutes or always in real life, so I don’t buy the arguments that only some degrees are worthwhile or, conversely, that some degrees guarantee a job.
What I do stress to my students is that school beyond high school keeps your options open, shows employers that you are capable of accomplishing goals, exposes you to opportunities and experiences you would otherwise miss, and gives you the chance to transition into adulthood over a few years.
Community colleges, as many have stated, are fantastic places to start if you are not committed to a particular college or field.
On a different rant, I also wonder how many parents start talking with their children about future goals before senior year. I think these conversations should start in middle school. The students have to make choices on math tracks as early as 6th grade. They may have choices of electives to explore new areas.
And they need to start seeing how smart decisions now can make life easier down the road.
I understand your arguments but wonder if you encourage people to go to any type of post High School graduate education at all. What types of full time jobs are going to be available to the person who is 18 years old and just out of High School?
(I agree college is not the answer for many people who go, but what is the alternative?
Yes, I actually think we should begin assessing people's post high school capabilities while they are still in high school. I think we should do a comprehensive assessment of each student's trackrecord in school. If they arent trending towards being a smart, diligent, studious student, by the end of high school then I think we should strongly encourage them to get a trade or go to vocational school. There is nothing wrong with vocational education, or getting a trade.
I have a bachelors degree which is pretty useful, and I would encourage kids to go to vocational school or trade school rather than college. If they arent able to do trade school, they should be encouraged to join the military. However, I think that if a student has obtained a trade, and STILL finds themselves wanting to attend college, then they should be allowed to. But I think they should be encouraged to go to vocational school first.
I am wondering how much “entitlement” feelings are coming into the notion that a college degree guarantees you a great job.
There are no absolutes or always in real life, so I don’t buy the arguments that only some degrees are worthwhile or, conversely, that some degrees guarantee a job.
What I do stress to my students is that school beyond high school keeps your options open, shows employers that you are capable of accomplishing goals, exposes you to opportunities and experiences you would otherwise miss, and gives you the chance to transition into adulthood over a few years.
Community colleges, as many have stated, are fantastic places to start if you are not committed to a particular college or field.
On a different rant, I also wonder how many parents start talking with their children about future goals before senior year. I think these conversations should start in middle school. The students have to make choices on math tracks as early as 6th grade. They may have choices of electives to explore new areas.
And they need to start seeing how smart decisions now can make life easier down the road.
I agree that some people's opinions stem from a sense of entitlement. However, no sense of entitlement manifests itself without a seed of that entitlement being planted. Certainly in this society, and in schools across the nation, kids are encouraged, and even assumed to be attending college after high school. College is actually somewhat of an expectation for anyone who expects to be taken seriously in our society. This needs to change, because today, college has proven itself to only really be worthwhile for a select few individuals.
One other thing I would suggest to high schoolers would be to ignore all of the abstract degrees, and fields of study. That is, of course, if they want to get an actual job upon graduation. Majoring in Clay Sculpture Computer Marketing, is ambiguous and will likely not aid in student determining a specific career direction. Most likely it would be an umbrella major, with many unrelated components cobbled together, under which students who are unsure of their interests will be sucked.
Do you know anyone who had planned to go to college but decided against it because of they could no longer afford it or felt that it would not really help them get a good job in the end?
Oh, I don't know...ummm...
- Peter Jennings
- Abraham Lincoln
- Bill Gates
- George Washington
- Frank Lloyd Wright
- Mark Twain
I've gotten very angry about the college mess my generation (gen y) is faced with.
From 1900 to the 1980's, college paid off for just about everybody. No one was working at Sears or Montgomery Wards in the 1960's after mortgaging their future. No one was facing bankruptcy at age 24 or 26. What's going on now is insanity. Gen Y wasn't told the truth about college. Everyone in k-12 was all too eager to tell them, happy, happy, happy. Go to college, graduate, be successful.
It has nothing to do with playing nintendo or never seeing a recession. They're still telling all too impressionable highschoolers, college is the place to be.
-I see HUGE riots in the future over student debt/lack of jobs. The recent UCLA protests are a small sample.
-They're going to have to forgive/change the rules on student debt defaults.
I somewhat disagree with this. I am 23 and think the majority of those around my age are simply lazy. For example, today at work my company anounced everyone could take a half day as a holiday gift from the company. Our business is failing because of the recession (401k's have been cut completely, pay has been cut, there have been layoffs, etc.) You would think people would stick around and work anyway to turn the company back around, but instead every single person under 30 (except me and one other guy) left the second the clock hit noon. New college grads don't get jobs because they think as long as they show up for work and do what they are told they deserve a great job. From my personal experience, most people my age simply don't go the extra mile in anything they do. With this attitude no wonder people struggle to find jobs.
What is really is sad is vocational/ technical education has been downplayed by the goverment for too long. So many students would better off joining union apprenticeship programs or going to two year technical colleges too pick up skills. Automotive, disel,Plumbing, hvac, electronics, electrician, culinary arts, sonography,dental hygeine, Lineman, elevator repair,etc all can be picked up by two year technical colleges or union apprenticeships. And these programs are based after real carees unlike the majority of 4 year college degrees. 80% of students major in liberal arts degrees like popular culture and womens rights.
Your exactly right. People don't realize that Diesel/Auto. Mechanics, Union truck drivers, Union Equipment operators etc. etc. easily clear $50,000 per year plus benefits after only a few years experience. I know for example around here, Union equipment operators start out at around $29.00 an hour plus Union benfits and retirement. Not too shabby if you ask me. Being blue collar is not bad people.
I think now is the best time to go to school. I make decent money with my B.A. but I want to make more, so now I'm working on my masters. I think the best thing to do is to choose a field that both interests you AND pays decent, and then go to a school that has affordable tuition.
-What types of jobs would be available to highschoolers (age 18) who just graduated? Lots of jobs if they didn't treat highschoolers like numbers, hold them down, give them happy marks and self esteem.
Probably 20% of a typical highschool is filled with boys who like to work with their hands, are mechanical, who would be great in tech/vocational schools. Let 16 year olds intern for half a year at the autobody shop down the street. Why keep them in classes they'll never use. Perhaps combine hands on, mechanical skills with business/enterpreneurial skills! So they can be the next Jesse James (WestCoast Choppers) or be able to open their own custom bike shop, or custom car shop.
Blue collar/vocational tech is a viable option for many.
-I dont think it has anything to do with entitlments, video games. Kids have always entertained themselves, but their were jobs in the 50's and 60's. People were able to build lives much earlier, with little or no debt.
-There's *WAAYYYY* too much ambiguity about the old line, "go to college, be successful". Non specific advice doesn't work in a fast changing and competitive world. Tell students the truth at age 15/16 about what its really like to be a lawyer, doctor, engineer, etc. Maybe extend highschool to 19 or 20 for those that want to continue onto one of those career paths. So they can see if they really want to do it. Before they get a $60 k or $80 k bill. It shouldn't be very difficult to give kids a real world of taste of various professions before they get to college.
-Give kids the option to work/study abroad between the ages of 16-20. Learning narrow US centric cirriculum in this day and age is silly.
Ultimately though, the model of k-12/college has become a complete scam. All the old benchmarks don't mean anything any more (highschool diploma, college diploma, extracirricular activities, gpa, being "well rounded", playing sports, etc). Pretending that they still mean something is crazy. Students need to be given benchmarks that mean something in the real world.
Your exactly right. People don't realize that Diesel/Auto. Mechanics, Union truck drivers, Union Equipment operators etc. etc. easily clear $50,000 per year plus benefits after only a few years experience. I know for example around here, Union equipment operators start out at around $29.00 an hour plus Union benfits and retirement. Not too shabby if you ask me. Being blue collar is not bad people.
\
Exactly, but my generation doesnt want to do this kind of work. The government has brainwashed my generation and our parnets to believe these careers are not good enough for us. There used to be a time when the skilled trades were respected, but then people started going off to colleges and telling other people to get these comfy air conditioned desk jobs. Colleges was away to get ahead untill around the 80's.
This is when the college bubble began to form and stories of kids graduating and no jobs began to take place. Now in todays time we have to many kids in there early to mid 20's with 20k-70k in debt with intrest and no jobs and no real skills. These so called comfy desk jobs are being outsource for lower wages.
Its simple really we have an oversupply of grauates and an undersupply of these so called high paying office jobs. But theres an undersupply of skilled tradespeople and a higher need for them. The U.S.A and canada are expected to be short 2million skilled tradesman by 2011, and the numbers are going to keep rising. Jobs that cant be outsource, have mass sourtages and are becoming more and more technical, which means the wages are going to be rising for thes occupations.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There used to be a time when the skilled trades were respected, but then people started going off to colleges and telling other people to get these comfy air conditioned desk jobs. Colleges was away to get ahead untill around the 80's.
