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I do not know anyone that did not want to go to college because of price. But I agree that colleges are overpriced. I think I was paying ~700 credit (private), but even state schools are getting crazy.
School is an investment. The key is to know your potential wage during the life of your career, and also the future growth/stability of your field. If you are talented, in a marketable field with potential down the road, go to school.
This is your chance to get your foot in the door. You have one advantage over currently employed people; You have nothing to lose by taking that low wage (don't go too low!). Get in, work your butt off, and when things pick up after a year or two, quit for a better job since you will have experience. You will most definitely not be overpriced. And now you have experience, while the person who just sat on the sidelines has to start from scratch because they think they can't afford it. Don't forget, it will take you at least 4 years to graduate, or more if you go part time. Things will change by then.
If you are worried about cost, and even if you are not, go to a community college to get your prereq's. Make sure you can transfer the credits to the school you really want to go to. You can save a bundle, and can be close to your junior year at the new school upon transfer.
Can't get a job out of college? Forbearence is your friend. You can do a voluntary for up to three years if you don't want to pay back loans right away. If you have a job, but don't make much, you can probably do a harship forbeance.
There was another thread about worrying about which college you go to. The "name" and all that. Kinda pointless to go to a top notch school, pay top dollar, for a career that may only pay 40-50k, if you can even find a job.
Those grads working retail either didn't do their research (useless degree etc), or did and maybe slacked in school, or possibly aren't willing to make sacrifices. And by sacrifices I mean relocating, taking an even lower paying job, or possibly finding other way's to use their degree. That reminds me of another thread about living your dream. I am all for it but it just isn't reality. We can't all work our dream job.
But, as I said, colleges are over priced. Know how to work the system.
Part of the blame should go to universities that keep offering stupid and useless degree plans and programs. Isn't there goal to put out highly educated and productive students?
I wholeheartedly agree with this artsyguy. As I said in my earlier post, students should ignore abstract majors such as Clay Sculpture Computer Marketing. They are umbrella majors, under which many unrelated components have been cobbled. This umbrella degree plan allows universities to attract more students by offering a field with four or five specialties meshed together, with no real emphasis on any individual specialty.
Those students who would typically conclude that college wasnt for them, because they didnt find a field that interests them, are now encouraged to waft around for 2 years while they decide who they are and what they want to do, and then they enter one of these umbrella majors. They obtain a very ambiguous degree, which taught them many half baked, or unapplicable skills in the real world. All for the sake of being able to say they have a college degree.
When they could have just gone to a tradeschool, had a very clearly oriented careerpath and started down that path. Thats how I see it at least.
Last edited by solytaire; 12-15-2009 at 12:03 PM..
What concerns me here is academic and intellectual disparity, which is already a problem imo. As it stands, 70% of the US population does not have a college education. The marjority of the ~28-30% of those who do, have, what many proport, less than useful degrees. For those in medicine, the sciences/technology, and law...what percentage is that? Maybe 5%. So, should only 5-10% of the population be educated? I don't think that's the way to go.
In short, I don't think less people should become formally educated, rather the academic machine needs to be contended with. It's ridiculous that it's so expensive.
But I really think that when we look at their scholastic background, there arent that many people who genuinely belong in college anyway. It seems to me that if someone barely graduated highschool, graduated from a very sub par college, then their education has largely been farce, just for the namesake of saying they attended college.
That would be fine if employers were generally hiring degreed applicants at a high rate. But at a time when major university grads are barely getting hired, its obvious to me that we have an overabundance of people with useless college experience to employers, and tons of debt.
Im not saying that any college degrees are useless. But the fact is that the only guaranteed hires for the most part are medical, engineering, or law degrees. Outside of those fields, its really a toss up. Its sad, and it doesnt mean that those with other degrees dont have a lot to offer, but its not getting them employment. And considering the amount of debt they incur, they're becoming too large of a demographic.
Those grads working retail either didn't do their research (useless degree etc), or did and maybe slacked in school, or possibly aren't willing to make sacrifices. And by sacrifices I mean relocating, taking an even lower paying job, or possibly finding other way's to use their degree. That reminds me of another thread about living your dream. I am all for it but it just isn't reality. We can't all work our dream job.
I believe that it is because students do not apply themselves and take advantage of the opportunities presented to them. It seems to me that too many students have this notion that just by showing up to class and receiving decent grades, they are going to somehow magically attract good jobs without doing much anything else.
Last summer I went down to Woods Hole, WHOI in particular, and talked to the liaison for the R/Vs. She said that it is the students who do internships that get the jobs, not those who graduated from College X or with a particular GPA.
I see many students on a daily basis who are not willing to do anything outside of the classroom. These seem to be the ones who end up working 'in a coffee shop' after graduation. The students who bother with internships, volunteerism, helping professors with projects, getting involved in school, and generally going out of their way or above and beyond the call of duty who make the connections and impressions needed to land a job in their chosen field or at the very least garner killer letters of recommendation form professors, faculty, and others.
But I really think that when we look at their scholastic background, there arent that many people who genuinely belong in college anyway. It seems to me that if someone barely graduated highschool, graduated from a very sub par college, then their education has largely been farce, just for the namesake of saying they attended college.
Sure, many do this, but it's certainly not the majority. If school wasn't so expensive, I'd fully support folk getting less than stellar educations. It's definately better than not, but I agree it's not worth a 20-60k debt. As so many say, these issues start in HS, which are sub-par as well.
Quote:
That would be fine if employers were generally hiring degreed applicants at a high rate. But at a time when major university grads are barely getting hired, its obvious to me that we have an overabundance of people with useless college experience to employers, and tons of debt.
The issue now is that employers require a degree. I don't know how that could be turned around. I suppose if 90% of the work force was undeducated, they wouldn't have a choice.
Quote:
Im not saying that any college degrees are useless. But the fact is that the only guaranteed hires for the most part are medical, engineering, or law degrees. Outside of those fields, its really a toss up. Its sad, and it doesnt mean that those with other degrees dont have a lot to offer, but its not getting them employment. And considering the amount of debt they incur, they're becoming too large of a demographic.
As I said in my earlier post, students should ignore abstract majors such as Clay Sculpture Computer Marketing.
No one is forcing students to take such 'useless' degrees. A university does not force students to take them, either. They are offered because some students do have an interest in them to begin with and to some students these types of degrees are worthwhile pursuits -and not every student attends college for career placement. To each their own, and besides, why do you (or anyone else, for that matter) really care which student takes what degree? If anything, it will only mean less job competition for those who got 'real' degrees.
No one is forcing students to take such 'useless' degrees. A university does not force students to take them, either. They are offered because some students do have an interest in them to begin with and to some students these types of degrees are worthwhile pursuits -and not every student attends college for career placement. To each their own, and besides, why do you (or anyone else, for that matter) really care which student takes what degree? If anything, it will only mean less job competition for those who got 'real' degrees.
This is true as well. OTOH, and this is anedotal, I know a girl that went to MASS-art, has about 60k in debt, and isn't paying it back. Now, I don't really care about her not paying the school, but many of these loans are subsidized, so we're paying. And defaulting on loans isn't good for the economy any way. That's not to say people should't get art degrees, and the entire 60k wasn't used entirely for school either. It's a pickle we're in.
When people default on their loans (or whatever actually happens and they're not paid back) it makes it that much harder for future students to get loans, and I think everyone should rightfully resent that.
The problem is that a lot of top tier universities are offering those stupid half-baked degrees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire
I wholeheartedly agree with this artsyguy. As I said in my earlier post, students should ignore abstract majors such as Clay Sculpture Computer Marketing. They are umbrella majors, under which many unrelated components have been cobbled. This umbrella degree plan allows universities to attract more students by offering a field with four or five specialties meshed together, with no real emphasis on any individual specialty.
Those students who would typically conclude that college wasnt for them, because they didnt find a field that interests them, are now encouraged to waft around for 2 years while they decide who they are and what they want to do, and then they enter one of these umbrella majors. They obtain a very ambiguous degree, which taught them many half baked, or unapplicable skills in the real world. All for the sake of being able to say they have a college degree.
When they could have just gone to a tradeschool, had a very clearly oriented careerpath and started down that path. Thats how I see it at least.
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