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They are being persuaded and influenced to take them because they think it has value. That is marketing. But if the university was honest they would advise on getting a degree from another program. When I was in college I always asked around what degree will be useful in the real world. Everything pointed to most of the departments in business management. Accounting was at the top.
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Originally Posted by K-Luv
No one is forcing students to take such 'useless' degrees. A university does not force students to take them, either. They are offered because some students do have an interest in them to begin with and to some students these types of degrees are worthwhile pursuits -and not every student attends college for career placement. To each their own, and besides, why do you (or anyone else, for that matter) really care which student takes what degree? If anything, it will only mean less job competition for those who got 'real' degrees.
When people default on their loans (or whatever actually happens and they're not paid back) it makes it that much harder for future students to get loans, and I think everyone should rightfully resent that.
This will get your goat...lol. I knew this woman from the building I lived in, which accepted section 8. We were paying $1k/mo for our apartment, and this lady paid $100/mo. Why? Her momma was dating the complex mgr and got her in on assistance. She doesn't work. She's in school and taking out these loans. We all get excess in loans, normally this goes towards living expenses. Since she doesn't have any living expenses, she gets to travel. She went every where over the summers. I could only wish for those experiences. Now, she's graduated and still not working. She'll never get her stuff together enough to pay them back.
Sure, many do this, but it's certainly not the majority. If school wasn't so expensive, I'd fully support folk getting less than stellar educations. It's definately better than not, but I agree it's not worth a 20-60k debt. As so many say, these issues start in HS, which are sub-par as well.
I agree that school is expensive, which is why I think that students need to get the best bang for their buck...either a medical, law, or engineering degree or a trade. Not because those are the only useful skills, but because those are the only fields with steady hiring rates.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
The issue now is that employers require a degree. I don't know how that could be turned around. I suppose if 90% of the work force was undeducated, they wouldn't have a choice.
But the reality is that many college grads are undereducated currently. Obviously they havent received an education that gives them the qualifications that employers want, because aside from medicine, law, and engineering, and maybe education, employers arent really hiring new grads in other fields.
Those students who would typically conclude that college wasnt for them, because they didnt find a field that interests them, are now encouraged to waft around for 2 years while they decide who they are and what they want to do, and then they enter one of these umbrella majors. They obtain a very ambiguous degree, which taught them many half baked, or unapplicable skills in the real world. All for the sake of being able to say they have a college degree.
When they could have just gone to a tradeschool, had a very clearly oriented careerpath and started down that path. Thats how I see it at least.
If they couldn't decide what their college major was going to be immediately upon entering, as you seem to think appropriate, how are they going to choose what trade to study at a trade school at the same age?
Some kids just aren't ready to make decisions that will affect them their whole life, when they are 17-18 years old. I would rather see a kid put in a year or two at community college in those circumstances, than go to a trade school. They will be exposed to a lot of different choices at CC, and may then decide to go to trade school, or maybe to continue their educations. A lot of CCs also have certificate programs in the trades, so are defacto trade schools.
My brother-in-law went to a vocational high school and studied electronics. He did so well he decided to go to college and pursue a two year degree. He did so well with that, he went on to get a BS in electrical engineering, and have a better career than he could have had without his degree. Just one story, but it fits this topic.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 12-15-2009 at 05:43 PM..
I agree that school is expensive, which is why I think that students need to get the best bang for their buck...either a medical, law, or engineering degree or a trade. Not because those are the only useful skills, but because those are the only fields with steady hiring rates.
But the reality is that many college grads are undereducated currently. Obviously they havent received an education that gives them the qualifications that employers want, because aside from medicine, law, and engineering, and maybe education, employers arent really hiring new grads in other fields.
I think there are more than that worth looking into. You're leaving out the sciences to start. And my global head's son just graduated from MIT in finance/business something or other, and his starting salary has to be >100k. I say this because my supervisor noted he'll be earning more that her. I was surprised she shared that info.
As mentioned, tho, getting a 4-year art degree in video whatever seems pretty silly.
No one is forcing students to take such 'useless' degrees. A university does not force students to take them, either. They are offered because some students do have an interest in them to begin with and to some students these types of degrees are worthwhile pursuits -and not every student attends college for career placement. To each their own, and besides, why do you (or anyone else, for that matter) really care which student takes what degree? If anything, it will only mean less job competition for those who got 'real' degrees.
Of course no one forces students to complete ambiguous degree plans. No one forces anyone to go to college at all..I was just advising that if they DO go to college, they should ignore majors with an ambiguous focus. And you're right, some students do go to college just for kicks...in which case they wouldnt need a degree plan, nor a major necessarily. They can just take courses as they want them. That said, for those who do seek career placement, they should ignore the more ambiguous majors.
I dont care, but I said I would advise kids to take certain majors and ignore the abstract majors because it wont get most of them a job. If they get a trade or major in medicine, engineering, or law, they have a much larger chance at getting hired, because we need more of those people right now.
College hardly seems worthwhile in this economy (?)
In this economy, we've all heard annecdotal 'evidence' of college graduates working for minimum wage on the Sears loading dock. But, if that were the norm, you can be certain that the non-college graduates (and the economy) would be in a lot worse shape. Most truly 'talented' (?) people find some way to attend college is because the facts clearly show that most college graduates will spend their lives making more money at better jobs - than non-college graduates. Unfortunately, there are always young high-school age people who imagine that a temporary ability to make more money at full-time jobs, than part-time work by college students, will translate into a lifetime advantage. It never has and never will. College may be seem too difficult and expensive to some young people, and 'some' people without college may even do better than 'some' people with college. But, such a decision, will most often translate into a 45-year mistake for all but the 'cream of the non-college crop.'
Your exactly right. People don't realize that Diesel/Auto. Mechanics, Union truck drivers, Union Equipment operators etc. etc. easily clear $50,000 per year plus benefits after only a few years experience. I know for example around here, Union equipment operators start out at around $29.00 an hour plus Union benfits and retirement. Not too shabby if you ask me. Being blue collar is not bad people.
It's true that you can be successful by going to trade school and getting a blue collar job. But just like college is not for everyone, trade school is not for everyone. I am better at academic subjects than I am at working with my hands.
I think the stigma of not having a college degree and working at a blue-collar job is mostly seated in the more populous, expensive, and "academically educated" regions of the country, which in most cases, these areas are more intertwined.
I would imagine that in regions where the education rate is fairly low and the population is more rural or working class, a trade - especially in a field where one could make above the median income salary - would be very desirable. Imagine someone from Kansas, Kentucky, or rural Texas working as a mechanic, construction, or HVAC, and making about $50,000+ annually. That would be pretty damn sweet in the perspective of the rural and blue collar societies because:
1) The person is making a suitable amount of money that would make his quality of life good (and would be able to support another person/family fairly easily)
2) He's doing something that's seen as a contribution to society (or at least the local community) and is seen as resourceful due to making a good living despite not having a college education
3) He is working in a more physically demanding field & with his hands, which - at least in the case of females from working and rural backgrounds - find that to be an attractive factor in a man.
(The only hindering factor is that in many of these rural and working class areas, their economies have been suffering through high unemployment and joblessness, even before the Great Recession affected the entire country).
This is compared to getting a blue-collar trade/related job in a more "upscale" and "educated" metropolitan area where the cost of living is higher - which would negate the decent $50,000 salary, and even if the person was making a good amount of money to live even in the more upscale parts of the area, his occupation would be seen as nothing more than "grunt work" and the locals would perceive him to be "under their level." That's why you don't see a lot of people taking on trades, because the days of the carpenter, mechanic, or electrician being seen in a dignified perspective are all but done within most of the country. And along with the welfare policies of the past 30 years and the rise & promotion of some of the most societal destructive subcultures ever known to man, the ghetto trash hoodlum and the trailer trash redneck are seen as more desirable in the eyes of society and females than the working blue-collar man!
There are a lot of reasons why the traditional "4-Year College" is not worth as much as it used to be, and I'll save that for a future post, perhaps. But the ultimate solution of solving our lack of blue collar workers (and perhaps solving a bit of the unemployment rate) is to give "blue collar" man & jobs its dignity and respect back in the eyes of ALL of the American society.
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College hardly seems worthwhile in this economy (?)
