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A key issue parents should help their children understand is that the ideas of what they think they want from life at 18, will change dramatically by the time they are 35, married, w/kids, mortgage and car/insurance/etc payments.
An 18-year old has the 'world' in front of them. A 40-year old with a family and limited education, has very few options to "do something else" ... or even to get an education at that point. Fresh college grads today are having a difficult time finding jobs,...BUT, older folks with no college are in worse shape -- with less hope of things changing in the near future.
Certainly, (as pointed out by some posters) there are many people who 'make it without an education.' -- BUT, there are many more people who 'make it WITH an education' ... and 'who FAIL without an education.'
It's really sad to see how little guidance so many young people get from their parents in this vitally important area. Unfortunately, I believe that much of that little/poor advice is based on parental financial difficulties that are greatly 'eased' if the youngster "decides on their own" not to attend college.
"Peter Jennings
- Abraham Lincoln
- Bill Gates
- George Washington
- Frank Lloyd Wright
- Mark Twain"
Abe Lincoln was a lawyer. At that time it was possible to apprentice to a lawyer and enter the field without attending law school. Thats been almost impossible for at least one hundred years.
FLWright apprenticed to an architect, IIUC. Again something which is no longer possible.
George Washington went from surveyor to land owner/militia officer to general. Today you can probably still become a surveryor without college. You will probably have a harder time than GW had going from surveyor to land owner. You can enlist in the military and become an officer in some cases without college. I think very few people make it to general without college, and in fact not many do without attending west point (at least to the level of command GW reached)
Bill gates attended Harvard and left when he and his friend landed a huge contract from IBM. If you are in that position, go for it. However at this stage of things, its much harder for a firm like that to land a contract like that, IIUC. It is in fact rather hard to get a Comp Sci job without at least a BS in Comp Sci. Note well, the founders of Google both had PhDs.
That leaves Jennings and Twain.
I dont know about broadcast journalism, as that is such a weak field now period, IIUC.
Twain - if you can right brilliant comic novels, I would agree you probably dont need a college degree.
I am talking to many friends and relatives who have decided not to go to college because the tuition fees are too high. Others have older brothers and sisters who have graduated and are now working at Sears for Minimum Wage on loading dock.
I wonder what impact this is going to have on our economy in the short and long term. So many talented people are going to not go to college and will likely be forced to spend the rest of their lives in lower waged low skilled jobs. They would have so much potential in a country with reasonable tuition and a more optimistic view of employment after graduation.
Do you know anyone who had planned to go to college but decided against it because of they could no longer afford it or felt that it would not really help them get a good job in the end?
Alot of it is timing and luck. I know a guy who went to my junior college, didn't really take his studies seriously, did not even graduate but was drafted to play baseball and is now a freakin multi millionaire. He just has a HS diploma + 1 or 2 years of JC. I have an uncle who only has a HS diploma and owns lots of property, buys new cars every year for him and his wife, and also just owns lots of other toys.
Maybe in a nursing home. The hospitals tend to want BSNs for their head nurses. There is not much job advancement for ADN nurses. They will be "staff nurses" forever.
Perhaps some of us just want to work as opposed to taking on a "leadership" position of some type.
The higher your title, the higher the amount of BS you'll have to put up with.
But, a BSN would still be good to have just the same.
When I start getting back to the school thing again, this is one of my potential goals.
They don't need college to be successful. They need entrepreneurial skills and start their own business.
Thats what I did and it worked out pretty good! Then again you have to work your ass off to make it as an entrepreneur. As long you work for someone else you will NEVER be rich. Thats why I tell people, "don't put all your efforts into working etc." If you aren't doing something on your own to make some money then you are on the wrong path. Start a small business on the side, write a book and sell it, make an innovative product etc. Thats what makes you rich, not working 40 hours a week for 30$/hr. People don't like going out on their own because there is no security to it. However, more risk means more reward. You might put in 6 months of hard work into a project and it will be a complete flop. That same idea, however, might also be the idea that makes you RICH. When you work for someone else, you NEVER have that opportunity.
Im not saying that any college degrees are useless. But the fact is that the only guaranteed hires for the most part are medical, engineering, or law degrees. Outside of those fields, its really a toss up.
Cross law degrees (JDs) off that list.
Contrary to what most laypeople think, our nation actually has a gigantic oversupply of lawyers and a great many JDs are either unemployed or severely underemployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field. Even if you an find a job as a lawyer, it is a miserable field with long, stressful hours and most legal jobs don't pay very well. (The people earning six figure salaries at large firms while working 65-70 hours/week are only a tiny percentage of the number of JDs out there.) Also, you could easily end up taking on $120,000-$185,000 worth of debt to pay for law school and your cost of living for three years. That debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
Thats what I did and it worked out pretty good! Then again you have to work your ass off to make it as an entrepreneur. As long you work for someone else you will NEVER be rich. Thats why I tell people, "don't put all your efforts into working etc." If you aren't doing something on your own to make some money then you are on the wrong path. Start a small business on the side, write a book and sell it, make an innovative product etc. Thats what makes you rich, not working 40 hours a week for 30$/hr. People don't like going out on their own because there is no security to it. However, more risk means more reward. You might put in 6 months of hard work into a project and it will be a complete flop. That same idea, however, might also be the idea that makes you RICH. When you work for someone else, you NEVER have that opportunity.
I think this is good advice. But, it takes a committed person to squirrel away investment money and utilize time productively. I hope I become one!
As an addendum to my last post, here is what may be the best, most recent article (a scholarly, published paper with citations, actually) on the subject of going to law school. This should be required reading for anyone who contemplates taking the LSAT.
Driving a lot of the change in the world of law practice has been the glut of lawyers
on the market; a glut fostered and even encouraged by the ABA and by law schools.
According to the American Bar Foundation, in 1951 there was one lawyer for every 695
Americans. Since then, in the year 2000 there was 1 lawyer for every 264 Americans.4
At that rate, in the year 2050 there will be 1 lawyer for every 100 Americans. I think it is
safe to say that, as a nation, the supply of lawyers long ago outstripped the demand for
their services. There are simply too many lawyers and too many law schools in the
United States. Given the oversupply of lawyers, if law schools were at all sensitive to
market forces they would be shutting their doors or at least reducing their student
headcount. Instead, new law schools continue to open each year. Since 1970, 51 new
law schools have been approved by the ABA.5 In 2006 alone, the ABA granted full
approval to two new law schools and provisional approval to two others.6.
-------------------
The result of all this is that law practice today is faster, more competitive, and more
pressurized than ever before. Lawyers today face pressures and challenges unknown by
those who practiced as recently as twenty or thirty years ago. Lawyers, many new but
some old, struggle to survive in such a marketplace. The temptation to cut ethical corners
increases as it becomes more difficult to make a living. According to former Chief
Justice Rehnquist, “The greater the pressure of maximization of income, the more likely
some sort of ethical difficulties will be encountered….”10
---------------------------------------
Law Schools Make Money
Why then, given the glut of lawyers, do new law schools continue to open and
existing law schools continue to graduate new lawyers in large numbers? The answer, of
course, is that by and large law schools make money. Law schools and their affiliated
universities have benefited handsomely from the increased number of those who desire
law degrees and they continue to mint graduates in large numbers. Whereas many, if not
most, graduate programs are money losers for their universities, law schools are
moneymakers and profit centers. Law school tuition is high, there is relatively little
tuition discounting, and relatively little outright scholarship assistance. Since 1985, at
public law schools, median tuition and fees have increased over 600% while private law
school tuition and fees have increased almost 500%.11 According to the ABA: “Since the
early 1970’s, there has been a steep and persistent rise in the cost of legal education and
in tuitions law schools charge students. During the period 1992 – 2002, the cost of living
in the U.S. has risen 28%, while the cost of tuition for public law schools has risen 134%
(for residents) and 100% (for non-residents) and private law school tuition has increased
76%.”12
Simply stated, law schools are university cash cows, contributing dollars to the
university’s bottom line.
Note that the ABA also recently issued an ethical opinion approving the foreign outsourcing of legal work and that the ABA is now considering accreditation (!!!) for foreign law schools! (Imagine having to compete against tens of thousands of U.S.-licensed attorneys in Mumbai and Peking.)
Also, the current lawyer-to-population ratio in the U.S. is now about 1 lawyer for every 215 people based on the number of JDs produced over the past 40 years and the current U.S. population.
(I don't mean to be obnoxious, but I wanted to post that link to that excellent scholarly paper and to do what I can to try to help someone from making what could be a life-destroying mistake.)
I am talking to many friends and relatives who have decided not to go to college because the tuition fees are too high. Others have older brothers and sisters who have graduated and are now working at Sears for Minimum Wage on loading dock.
I wonder what impact this is going to have on our economy in the short and long term. So many talented people are going to not go to college and will likely be forced to spend the rest of their lives in lower waged low skilled jobs. They would have so much potential in a country with reasonable tuition and a more optimistic view of employment after graduation.
Do you know anyone who had planned to go to college but decided against it because of they could no longer afford it or felt that it would not really help them get a good job in the end?
I have a few relatives who are/were like that. I have a little cousin who is extremely brilliant and she is a senior this year. She says she will go to community college, but she does not want to go because she doesn't know what she wants to do. Also, she knows that it took me a while to find my part-time job and occasionally she asks me why going to college is important if you' will end up "overqualified". We live in rural areas where most of the people are lucky to get a high-school diploma and very few jobs are available outside of fast-food and retail.
Also, when I was unemployed, my little brother worked at a fast-food restaurant and he used to mock me all the time. He would say, "What has your degree done for you? Nothing!" When I ended up finding a pretty decent part-time job that paid more than his job he decided to go back to school part-time.
Many kids go to college because they want to create better opportunities. Starting a business is great, but you have to have the right kind of personality, work ethic, and funding. If you want kids to go back to college, you have to show them it is still worth it. Right now, there are so many "overqualified" Americans who are unemployed/underemployed. What colleges need to do is show kids "What do I get if I succeed? Just a piece of paper and some knowledge?"
I love my education, but I can see why some are a bit reluctant to get a degree. One of my professors during my undergrad actually told me that the college's policy was: We don't care if you get a job or not as long as you learn something. This was before the recession. So, colleges should start investing more when it comes to helping their students find jobs if they want students to keep attending college. Also, the economy needs to drastically improve.
Unless you are extremely talented ( more so than the average American and you can prove it), you should get your degree, just to stay competitive.
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