Teacher Shortage in Colorado (Denver: high school, university, income)

[Vision67]

Originally Posted by caverunner17

Then they didn't save enough or mismanaged their finances earlier in their life and still have high outstanding debts (mortgage, car payments etc).

A single person today who saves 10% of their base $40,000 salary for 43 years (22-65), assuming an annual 3% salary increase and a 5% return average, which is low (average is around 8% historically) from the market would net you $920,000.

If you're married, double that and you've got $1.8 million.

I used to think like that when I was in my twenties. Just save every month and invest wisely, what could go wrong?

But now that I'm 67 and experienced with life I've learned that it's not that simple.

Most people experience big setbacks; the biggest are job loss, illness and divorce. Those three easily consume any savings that people have been able to accumulate up to that point in their lives.

The other biggie is sending their kids to college.

I also used to hate the idea of Social Security. I hated being taxed to pay for those old people sitting on the bench in the park. But now I understand.

A better pension for everybody that's automatically created during ones working life would be a better solution than a 401K. It's not reasonable to expect normal people to manage their investments. Most will fail. Just look at the current results of that system.

[Katarina Witt]

^^Agreed!

A friend and her brother, both middle class late middle agers, were talking about investing. The bro had two kids in college, my friend is childless. My friend recommended some investment and her brother said no. She asked him what he was investing in and he told her, "tuition".

I think 401Ks are fine for some of one's investments, and they have the advantage of inheritablility. SS just stops when you pass away, except for surviving spouses. But I look at SS as a sort of "minimum wage" of retirement. A pension would be nice, too, but except for most public employees, is a thing of the past.

[Vision67]

A bipartisan bill aimed at studying and fixing the causes of Colorado’s growing teacher shortage passed the state House on Monday and now heads to the Senate for approval.

House Bill 1003 requires the Department of Higher Education to work with the Colorado Department of Education, school districts and other education associations to identify root causes of the teacher shortage and recommend strategies to recruit and retain more teachers.

Because each area of the state has different needs, the plan will generate unique solutions for rural, urban and suburban school districts, said the bill’s sponsor, Rep. Barbara McLachlan.

“We know the teacher shortage in Colorado has reached crisis mode, so this bill creates the framework to do something about it and bring more teachers to our classroom,” McLachlan said.

Bill hopes to study, reverse Colorado’s growing teacher shortage – The Denver Post

[otowi]

Yeah, it should be easy to figure out.

[hollyt00]

That House bill 1176 could be a big deal- I know that once you are retired, you are locked into teaching only a certain amount of time. I worked with a retired French teacher who could only be at the school "x" hours unless she'd lose her pension.


Housing for the rural districts would really help. Getting rid of things like the evaluation system will keep teachers in the profession. Eliminating/encouraging universities not to have insane teacher preparation programs (the length of the programs + student debt + low teacher pay = calculated decisions to avoid the teaching profession) would also help.

[Coloradomom22]

Originally Posted by hollyt00

That House bill 1176 could be a big deal- I know that once you are retired, you are locked into teaching only a certain amount of time. I worked with a retired French teacher who could only be at the school "x" hours unless she'd lose her pension.


Housing for the rural districts would really help. Getting rid of things like the evaluation system will keep teachers in the profession. Eliminating/encouraging universities not to have insane teacher preparation programs (the length of the programs + student debt + low teacher pay = calculated decisions to avoid the teaching profession) would also help.

This is one of the biggest problems with getting more people to enter the teaching profession. The cost of getting a teaching degree plus certification is more than a degree that will yield a much higher salary. Even state colleges cost a minimum of $60k for four years plus certification. When starting pay is around $36k a year (with small incremental increases over many years) it's tough for a young graduate to afford those loan payments plus pay regular living expenses. If the state would subsidize teaching majors I bet you'd see an upswing in applicants.

Also, the profession in general is very disrespected. Not only do you have the whole "teach to the test" stress, but classroom control is the biggest challenge. When students are unruly there's nothing you really can do when administrators and parents don't back you up. In the end teachers are always blamed for our educational problems. I was a teacher for many years and I considered going back but with such dismal pay and bad working conditions anything else is more appealing.

Charter schools are also a problem as they offer even worse pay and there are tons being built recently. A friend with 15 years experience plus a master's in English applied for a job at a charter K-12 in the metro area. Teachers are required not only to teach but sponsor a club (time obligations after school, weekends and for competitions). She interviewed and when asked about salary (there are no pay scales) she said "$42k thinking that was very reasonable for her experience. In the end they told her that was way too much. Turns out most teachers there get paid in the $30's. Who is going to be attracted to a profession where even an expensive master's degree doesn't move you much beyond the nationally promoted $15 minimum wage?

[Coloradomom22]

[quote=InchingWest;46469926]I agree with your post, and I've just entered my 30s and considered teaching as a profession, in large part because of the time off (I'm getting burned out by 50-55 hour weeks and the overtime just isn't worth it considering I have no "life-balance"). I also think I can be someone who "throws sand in the gears" who can do but a small part to bring the system to a halt and prepare the groundwork for major systemic changes.

There are a host of problems and no one can point the finger at any one issue. General cultural decay is the primary reason, bad parenting is a symptom of that. Drug use is getting worse and worse among adults, especially in rural areas, and we as a country seem to be importing the entire 3rd world which not only isn't good for the numbers, but will only get worse over time. Sad to say that this is true as it goes against what I was taught growing up.

Couple that with not being able to instill any sort of discipline in the classroom and it's no wonder we get the horror stories we hear today. For someone who was a sergeant at one time, not being able to instill even a minor amount of discipline is hard for me to comprehend. When I was a student we respected our teachers, but there were a good chunk of bad apples, mostly the imported ghetto students and the white trash, but you could always tell that these kids were not going to grow up to be anything stellar.

On the other hand there are a host of benefits to being a teacher. In the Northeast and the West Coast teachers are paid very well (I don't know why so many complain) and the benefits are what I call "full hilt" and in large part are not paid directly by the teachers themselves due to the unions fighting strongly against it. The only thing holding teachers back financially are the same poor financial choices many Americans make: which is to get overloaded on debt, toys, and frivilous purchases. If you live frugally you will do very well, and you can always take on a summer job. Keep in mind that considering summers off you have to calculate a teacher's salary as being 33% higher than what the base number suggests, so a teacher making $50k is really making a $67k equivalent. Add in the benefits package and teacher with just a few years in service is actually making more like a 90k equivalent, and even more in major cities.



I taught in California. Teachers there (and in some eastern states like Massachusetts ) have it the best because of the very strong unions. Whereas most of us with 401k's went behind with the recession, teachers are guaranteed a defined benefit that can be worth millions over an extended lifetime. Yes, they contributed but not more than others do for social security yet their returns are much higher. I have friends who retired at 60 and are getting almost 100k a year for life with COL increases. Oh and they got over 100k a year just for salary. Yes housing there is also insane (Los Angeles) but many bought years ago and are actually quite wealthy all things considering.

That being said, those teachers also got their degrees when they were affordable. Many states require a master's within a certain time frame after starting your teaching career. Every five years you must bank so many extending-education hours which is costly and also time-consuming.

The bolded actually made me laugh. I used to have student teachers observe my classroom and I'd often hear their idealisms ring through when they said they believed they could change education. If you last more than a few years you come to realize that you are nothing but a cog in a machine.. A very big, bureaucratic political machine that will never change. The only thing you can do is your very best with educating and influencing the kids who come into YOUR classroom. Oh you can move up the ladder and become an administrator but believe me that's just more politics and bureacracy. I have witnessed several teachers quit after a few years as they became so disillusioned with their goals for entering the profession.

[eatsDEN]

Originally Posted by otowi

TherDefined Benefit plans are just much more beneficial to the user than a defined contribution plan...

Defined Benefit plans are basically extinct now-a-days - they are very uncommon - they are too costly to administer and provide the guaranteed benefits - especially when the entities responsible for them are not fully funding their obligations annually.

[MountainEarth]

The teacher shortage is easy to explain .. The pay sucks.

Cost of living in Colorado is skyrocketing, and teacher salaries are not keeping up. It's damn near impossible to start out as a teacher anywhere worth living in Colorado, and be able to pay rent (much less save for a house).

Colorado has the 13th lowest starting salary for teachers (Teacher Salaries By State | Average Salaries For Teachers | Beginning Salaries For Teachers | Teacher Raises | TeacherPortal.com) and yet we're seeing some of the biggest cost-of-living increases in the nation. You really want to teach here, your spouse needs to bring in a solid second income. Either that, or residents need to start ponying up. And that's not going to happen.

[Vision67]

Originally Posted by MountainEarth

The teacher shortage is easy to explain .. The pay sucks.

Cost of living in Colorado is skyrocketing, and teacher salaries are not keeping up. It's damn near impossible to start out as a teacher anywhere worth living in Colorado, and be able to pay rent (much less save for a house).

Colorado has the 13th lowest starting salary for teachers (Teacher Salaries By State | Average Salaries For Teachers | Beginning Salaries For Teachers | Teacher Raises | TeacherPortal.com) and yet we're seeing some of the biggest cost-of-living increases in the nation. You really want to teach here, your spouse needs to bring in a solid second income. Either that, or residents need to start ponying up. And that's not going to happen.

That table shows the average salary of an experienced teacher in Colorado is just $49,844.

That makes it hard for a teacher to rent anything along the front range. Furthermore, if that person had to borrow significant amounts to get through college, they are in a big hole.

"Mama's, don't let your babies grow up to be teachers...."