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If you think flipping burgers is so easy, I have to ask, have you ever done it?
Yes, my first job was at Burger King. The work could be hard physically, but it was certainly not a job requiring any education or a high skill level. NOT AT ALL.
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I don't think it shows a lack of ambition.
At 15, or 18, or while in college? No, not necessarily. At 30 - something's amiss.
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Many people do that job while writing books, acting in the theater, doing art work or doing other jobs that pay little or next to nothing but are very creative.
Their choice, but the fact still remains that "flipping burgers" is a job requiring no education (past about the 9th grade) and a very low skill level overall.
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There are lots of white collar jobs that don't pay more that $15.00 an hour. Are they any better than flipping burgers? I don't think so.
No one's saying they're any "better." But most burger flipping jobs don't pay $15 an hour either. Any job paying over about $12 an hour - white or blue collar - requires some additional skills/experience - they aren't entry level like the vast majority of burger flipping jobs. (For the record, I am not including asst mgr or mgr positions in the "burger flipping" example - there is great opportunity to move into management positions which pay well in the fast food industry, if someone wants to make a living in that business.)
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Some people just like flipping burgers for a living. There is nothing wrong with that. Someone has to do it. If that makes them happy, who is to say they should want more?
If they want to stick with a job that requires no education and a very low skill level, that's fine. But why should those of us who have invested more effort into education, developing skills, etc. SUBSIDIZE their lack of ambition? They need to understand that jobs requiring very little investment basically pay low wages.
You know what? Maybe I don't want the stress of a corporate job either, or maybe I don't want to take the risk of owning my own business. I don't want to have to make decisions about budgets, or create safety plans, or manage or hire others, or work overtime, or go to college for years to become a professional, or work outside on a frac crew in mud up to my knees in 3 degree weather at 4 am. No, I don't want to do any of that. But I want to be paid the same as those people, even though I just want to flip burgers. Hell, I don't even want to do that - I just want to sit in an air conditioned office and answer a phone that's not too busy. I like that pace. I'll do that job well. Now - pay me what you're paying those other people. After all, the dignity is in the work itself, right? I'm worth as much as those people are - I'm a PERSON AFTER ALL!!!!
Yes, my first job was at Burger King. The work could be hard physically, but it was certainly not a job requiring any education or a high skill level. NOT AT ALL.
At 15, or 18, or while in college? No, not necessarily. At 30 - something's amiss.
Their choice, but the fact still remains that "flipping burgers" is a job requiring no education (past about the 9th grade) and a very low skill level overall.
No one's saying they're any "better." But most burger flipping jobs don't pay $15 an hour either. Any job paying over about $12 an hour - white or blue collar - requires some additional skills/experience - they aren't entry level like the vast majority of burger flipping jobs. (For the record, I am not including asst mgr or mgr positions in the "burger flipping" example - there is great opportunity to move into management positions which pay well in the fast food industry, if someone wants to make a living in that business.)
If they want to stick with a job that requires no education and a very low skill level, that's fine. But why should those of us who have invested more effort into education, developing skills, etc. SUBSIDIZE their lack of ambition? They need to understand that jobs requiring very little investment basically pay low wages.
You know what? Maybe I don't want the stress of a corporate job either, or maybe I don't want to take the risk of owning my own business. I don't want to have to make decisions about budgets, or create safety plans, or manage or hire others, or work overtime, or go to college for years to become a professional, or work outside on a frac crew in mud up to my knees in 3 degree weather at 4 am. No, I don't want to do any of that. But I want to be paid the same as those people, even though I just want to flip burgers. Hell, I don't even want to do that - I just want to sit in an air conditioned office and answer a phone that's not too busy. I like that pace. I'll do that job well. Now - pay me what you're paying those other people. After all, the dignity is in the work itself, right? I'm worth as much as those people are - I'm a PERSON AFTER ALL!!!!
Now you have it Comrade! I am therefore I deserve.
I have a kid in college (about to graduate) AND have am one of the McDonalds "alum" so I think I have a bit of perspective on both sides. What I learned while growing up is that you should have 2 or more available job skills to survive. For many years it hasn't been enough just to be "a banker" "a realtor" or a whatever because the employment situation has been in flux since the computer revolution sped the world up.
I learned to do 5-10 different jobs some with several variations so I could always find work at a "living wage". It was called "bouncing from job to job" and I was constantly made fun of by my friends and family for not having a stable job and thought of as a flake. I guess I saw early on that employers were tossing their loyalty to employees out the window in favor of the bottom line so I had no loyalty to them and didn't consider ANY job a 30 year endeavor.
If I was physically able to work right now I've got no doubt I could come up with a job using one of my skills within weeks. It may not be my "dream" job but it'd more than pay the bills and keep the lights on.
Amen and amen.
My first job was at Burger King. Over the 35 years that I worked mostly full time, I was, in no particular order:
1. Art therapist for the criminally insane at a maximum security mental hospital (1 year)
2. Realtor (five years)
3. Bank manager (three years)
4. Internet sales director for a television station (one year)
5. Corporate trainer for an international company (five years)
6. Sales manager for a staffing company (two years)
7. Interior decorator (three years)
8. Sales manager for an HR consulting company (three years)
9. Daycare worker (a few months)
10. Convenience store clerk (a few months)
11. Counter manager for Chanel (six months)
12. Fast food worker (summers during high school)
13. Retail store sales (college)
(I know this doesn't add up to 35 years by the way - I took a few years off to have kids and raise them till they got into school.)
I have never gone one day without a job (when I wanted to work). In fact, I haven't worked outside the home for the past two years, because my husband and I opened our own business and all I do now is keep the books (very part time) from home. Even so, I still get job offers from past employers, people who know me, etc. A couple of months ago, I got three job offers in one week! One was for sales manager of a furniture store, one was a commission job as an interior designer, and one was as a personal banker at a large bank. And I'm not even looking for work!
Every time I've moved and looked for a job, I've had to CHOOSE from job offers - good job offers - in spite of the fact that I only have two years of college (I do have several professional certifications - insurance, real estate, etc). When I'm working out in the local economy in the public eye, it's very common for me to get a couple of job offers every month. In fact, I made several moves (see above) because I was recruited away from a company I was working with.
I am not bragging. I'm saying that I get these job offers because I am versatile, and because I am known to be a very honest and hard worker, a strong producer, and because I am ENTHUSIASTIC.
PS I probably wouldn't have changed jobs SO many times if I hadn't moved a lot over the years. But I was always able to get a decent job. I supported four kids for several years without receiving child support on the jobs of sales manager and interior decorator.
The most lucrative jobs by far from that list were, in order:
Realtor
Sales manager (all those positions paid pretty well)
Internet sales director
Bank manager
If I ever had to go back to work ("real" work vs what I do now which is very part time), I would definitely go either into real estate again or banking. Real estate is the most fun, but to make a good living at it, you have to work a lot of weekends and after hours. I don't really mind that but it's harder work than most people think it is. Banking doesn't pay as well as real estate but it's very regular hours, good benefits, and lots of holidays!
That is exactly the point of the minimum wage. A pair of used sneakers is $10, while new ones are $40. Poor analogy. If the minimum wage was $1.00/hr today, McD's would be paying $1.00/hr. $7.25/hr is a very low wage for life in America today. I live in Brasil and almost nobody works for $7.25/hr. I think it is very ironical that people complain about the minimum wage at $7.25/hr, but they will pay someone $20 or more/hour in cash to clean their house. Then, these same workers will demand/receive benefits from the government....housing, food stamps, etc and you think this is bad.
If those people paid a company to have someone clean their house it'd be $20 or more and the worker would most likely only see $8 out of it. Paying the $20 in cash to the worker just cuts out the middle man called the government and the small profit made by the employer.
If you look at what an employee costs you'd see it's about double what they're paid if not more when you take all the taxes into account.
As for sneakers, I get mine at Costco for $14 brand new. Granted they're not Nike Air Jordan or anything like that but they're sneakers that work for walking in.
My first job was at Burger King. Over the 35 years that I worked mostly full time, I was, in no particular order:
1. Art therapist for the criminally insane at a maximum security mental hospital (1 year)
2. Realtor (five years)
3. Bank manager (three years)
4. Internet sales director for a television station (one year)
5. Corporate trainer for an international company (five years)
6. Sales manager for a staffing company (two years)
7. Interior decorator (three years)
8. Sales manager for an HR consulting company (three years)
9. Daycare worker (a few months)
10. Convenience store clerk (a few months)
11. Counter manager for Chanel (six months)
12. Fast food worker (summers during high school)
13. Retail store sales (college)
I have never gone one day without a job (when I wanted to work). In fact, I haven't worked outside the home for the past two years, because my husband and I opened our own business and all I do now is keep the books (very part time) from home. Even so, I still get job offers from past employers, people who know me, etc. A couple of months ago, I got three job offers in one week! One was for sales manager of a furniture store, one was a commission job as an interior designer, and one was as a personal banker at a large bank. And I'm not even looking for work!
Every time I've moved and looked for a job, I've had to CHOOSE from job offers - good job offers - in spite of the fact that I only have two years of college (I do have several professional certifications - insurance, real estate, etc). When I'm working out in the local economy in the public eye, it's very common for me to get a couple of job offers every month. In fact, I made several moves (see above) because I was recruited away from a company I was working with.
I am not bragging. I'm saying that I get these job offers because I am versatile, and because I am known to be a very honest and hard worker, a strong producer, and because I am ENTHUSIASTIC.
PS I probably wouldn't have changed jobs SO many times if I hadn't moved a lot over the years. But I was always able to get a decent job. I supported four kids for several years without receiving child support on the jobs of sales manager and interior decorator.
The most lucrative jobs by far from that list were, in order:
Realtor
Sales manager (all those positions paid pretty well)
Internet sales director
Bank manager
If I ever had to go back to work ("real" work vs what I do now which is very part time), I would definitely go either into real estate again or banking. Real estate is the most fun, but to make a good living at it, you have to work a lot of weekends and after hours. I don't really mind that but it's harder work than most people think it is. Banking doesn't pay as well as real estate but it's very regular hours, good benefits, and lots of holidays!
We had a realtor who turned into a close friend who was like you. She was even a licensed Clown! Clown school and all that on top of all else she knew. Very successful even in the RE crash.
She had kids to feed (single parent no support) and would do anything (legal) to make $$$ and refused assistance.
Great, great lady worth the highest respect!
I've done everything from gas station asst. manager to driving trucks,crane operator,hazmat tech to computer network engineer not to mention McDonalds as a night maintenance worker which paid $3 hr more than a burger flipper due to overnight hours and having to clean fryers/shake machines.
If those people paid a company to have someone clean their house it'd be $20 or more and the worker would most likely only see $8 out of it. Paying the $20 in cash to the worker just cuts out the middle man called the government and the small profit made by the employer.
If you look at what an employee costs you'd see it's about double what they're paid if not more when you take all the taxes into account.
As for sneakers, I get mine at Costco for $14 brand new. Granted they're not Nike Air Jordan or anything like that but they're sneakers that work for walking in.
Right on.
When my kids were little, I chose to stay home and raise them till they entered school. Consequently, we didn't have a lot of money. So...we had one car and my husband invested in a bike and public transportation to get to work. We didn't have cable or satellite TV, hell, we didn't even have a TV at all for awhile and when we did, it was a pretty small one and we used it for watching rented movies basically. Our furniture came mostly from yard sales and resale shops. So did our clothes for that matter. I cooked at home - three squares a day. We simply did NOT eat out. Ever. I tell people this and they don't believe me, but I swear that for five years we didn't buy a single soft drink, because they were a wasteful luxury. My kids had no idea what a Happy Meal was because we just didn't eat out. We didn't go on vacations, except to drive to see family. We DID take the kids to the zoo, the local sights, swimming, camping, etc. I did cooking and art projects with them for entertainment, and I took them to the park every day.
I remember distinctly that I had a tiny closet in the master bedroom, and that all our clothes fit in it with room to spare. I had two pairs of jeans, some shirts, a couple of pairs of WalMart sweats, and a few dressier items I'd picked up at resale shops, or that my mom had bought me, to wear to church or on special occasions. I had about five pairs of shoes.
Most of the world would consider us to have been well off, by the way. We lived in conditions that most people the world over would have thought was at LEAST middle class, and in many places it would be considered living in the lap of luxury.
Oh, and my kids and I were healthy and happy. In fact, these "poor" years were some of the best years of our lives.
We had a realtor who turned into a close friend who was like you. She was even a licensed Clown! Clown school and all that on top of all else she knew. Very successful even in the RE crash.
She had kids to feed (single parent no support) and would do anything (legal) to make $$$ and refused assistance.
Great, great lady worth the highest respect!
I've done everything from gas station asst. manager to driving trucks,crane operator,hazmat tech to computer network engineer not to mention McDonalds as a night maintenance worker which paid $3 hr more than a burger flipper due to overnight hours and having to clean fryers/shake machines.
You sound like my husband!
Now, he's a little different twist from me, and his story does show the benefits of sticking with one particular INDUSTRY. He did do a little of everything till he was about 28. By then he had come to realize that the jobs with the most promise and which fit his skill set the best were in the oil and gas industry. So he worked his tail off in that industry, in a wide range of positions - offshore, overseas, traveling all over the US. Like he says, he took the jobs that no one else volunteered for - and he did his time.
Now, thirty five years later, he's working at the top of his field, as a free lance consultant, and making a great living - working three weeks on and two weeks off. He has an associate's degree in oil and gas.
His story does show the benefits of sticking with one particular industry and learning all you can about every aspect of that industry and every sort of job within one industry.
When my kids were little, I chose to stay home and raise them till they entered school. Consequently, we didn't have a lot of money. So...we had one car and my husband invested in a bike and public transportation to get to work. We didn't have cable or satellite TV, hell, we didn't even have a TV at all for awhile and when we did, it was a pretty small one and we used it for watching rented movies basically. Our furniture came mostly from yard sales and resale shops. So did our clothes for that matter. I cooked at home - three squares a day. We simply did NOT eat out. Ever. I tell people this and they don't believe me, but I swear that for five years we didn't buy a single soft drink, because they were a wasteful luxury. My kids had no idea what a Happy Meal was because we just didn't eat out. We didn't go on vacations, except to drive to see family. We DID take the kids to the zoo, the local sights, swimming, camping, etc. I did cooking and art projects with them for entertainment, and I took them to the park every day.
I remember distinctly that I had a tiny closet in the master bedroom, and that all our clothes fit in it with room to spare. I had two pairs of jeans, some shirts, a couple of pairs of WalMart sweats, and a few dressier items I'd picked up at resale shops, or that my mom had bought me, to wear to church or on special occasions. I had about five pairs of shoes.
Most of the world would consider us to have been well off, by the way. We lived in conditions that most people the world over would have thought was at LEAST middle class, and in many places it would be considered living in the lap of luxury.
Oh, and my kids and I were healthy and happy. In fact, these "poor" years were some of the best years of our lives.
You mean to tell us that your kids were happy without a Happy meal, the latest sneakers ($150 pair) the latest video games and you didn't have a Coach bag or Jimmy Chew shoes?
Oh, the horror of it all!
When I was a teen ('70s) we had a choice for sneakers, black or white Keds. PERIOD. You want something else? Well, go make some $$. We were probably lower middle class to upper lower class but we didn't know it at the time. We had food,shelter and clothing, went to the occasional movie so all was good.
You mean to tell us that your kids were happy without a Happy meal, the latest sneakers ($150 pair) the latest video games and you didn't have a Coach bag or Jimmy Chew shoes?
Oh, the horror of it all!
When I was a teen ('70s) we had a choice for sneakers, black or white Keds. PERIOD. You want something else? Well, go make some $$. We were probably lower middle class to upper lower class but we didn't know it at the time. We had food,shelter and clothing, went to the occasional movie so all was good.
So true.
My parents always provided the basics. If we wanted more than that, we needed to go earn some money. And this attitude kicked in when we turned about 7. Want nicer shoes, or that set of books? Get out in the yard and rake some leaves. Rake the neighbor's leaves. Sell lemonade. Baby sit. Clean out the pantry and re-arrange it all. Do all the ironing for a month. Ask Mom or Dad to make a list of special projects and do them. Go ask the neighbors if they have any work for you to do - painting a garage, dog sitting or walking, etc.
I understand the issue of folks making minimum wage wanting to get paid more. Heck, I'm always looking to get that fat raise from my company. But the main thing that I think folks are missing is that minimum wage jobs are minimum wage jobs because of supply and demand. A person is only going to earn what their employer (or the market) feels their skills, knowledge and/or talent are worth.
I'm not here to say how easy or how difficult flipping burgers is, but let's face it, there are hundreds of millions of people in this country who are "qualified" to do that job. The number of qualified applicants is virtually unlimited. With the pool of qualified employees for minimum wage jobs is so vast, it stands to reason that employers will not offer top dollar to for positions that are relatively easy to fill. It's not about appreciation or lack thereof, it's about the simple economics of supply and demand.
This same principle essentially applies to all jobs. Move up the ladder to teachers. Although teachers make substantially more than minimum wage, there's also an underlying sentiment that their salaries do not correlate with the amount of service they provide the community/country. But since the talent pool for teachers is relatively large (in comparison to other professions), teachers will never make as much as say a lawyer or a doctor whose pool of qualified talent relatively small.
I'm saying all of this to point out that no matter how difficult a minimum wage job can be, minimum wage jobs are that way and will remain that way because of supply and demand. How well a person is able to live off of this salary will not enter into the equation no matter how right or wrong it is. Therefore taking on a minimum wage job is not going to ever offer the type of wage and benefits that many people feel is necessary to live comfortably. It's not right...it's not wrong...it's just the reality of supply and demand.
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