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Old 12-13-2014, 10:18 PM
 
822 posts, read 1,284,026 times
Reputation: 658

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68551 View Post
I have seen so many posts and anger about the abuse of the welfare system....
Lets brainstorm for Washington and come up with a way to cu down on welfare (if possible)
Is there a way to give it to deserving folks without bottom feeders coming in for a permanent handout??
Anyone have a god suggestion??
The cure for welfare is actually education and to somehow create interest in it. Yes, the education system has always been around and there are free or near free public schools. However, the motivation must come from within and from the family unit to nurture and encourage pursuit of academics. When you have a ghetto kid thinking a $200 pair of basketball shoes is more important than a book there's a problem. When an iPad is used to watch movies, videos and listen to music instead of to read, even if its just the news to open one's world up to possibilities, that's a problem.
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Old 12-13-2014, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,829 posts, read 2,235,307 times
Reputation: 6225
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatAngMoh View Post
The cure for welfare is actually education and to somehow create interest in it. Yes, the education system has always been around and there are free or near free public schools. However, the motivation must come from within and from the family unit to nurture and encourage pursuit of academics. When you have a ghetto kid thinking a $200 pair of basketball shoes is more important than a book there's a problem. When an iPad is used to watch movies, videos and listen to music instead of to read, even if its just the news to open one's world up to possibilities, that's a problem.
I have thought about this concept a lot, and have come away with a bit of a different take. We all have things that are our "attainable" luxuries when compared to our income level, so the kid in the ghetto prioritizing $200 sneakers is similar to the first job single college grad making $45000 per year driving a high end BMW. Neither purchase makes much sense based on their incomes, but since the poverty of the one is so severe, we scratch our heads, but don't give a second thought to our BMW driving friend, but both decisions are the function of the same thought process - this sets me apart, makes me important. Neither can truly afford the item they hold as their "luxury" but both ignored their circumstance for appearances.

I do absolutely agree that an educated populace is important, but think it must be coupled with a work ethic and desire to be productive in society. Education alone is not enough, and a strong work ethic without education will likely lead to a frustrated under employed individual. The two things need to be conjoined to be truly powerful and effective IMO.

I graduated with an English degree many years ago, and absolutely nothing happened for me career wise until I figured out that the education got me in the door and gave me tools, but when I figured out it was my responsibility to "earn my keep" things took off professionally, financially, and personally.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:51 AM
 
172 posts, read 159,051 times
Reputation: 249
Yeah, the problem isn't that the kid wants expensive shoes or that he doesn't care about education as a teenager. That's practically the norm in all kids, regardless of whether they succeed or not. The problem is simply an attitude or understanding about how the world works (or lack thereof).

There are lots of people today who feel that you can have no skills or not even work and still be able to live just about as well as someone who does. You may not have the latest smartphone, but you should still have a flip phone and free minutes. Or you may not have a convertible, but you still should have a car - which is even more funny when you consider they simultaneously try to get people who buy their own cars to use mass transit.

In other words, it's a bunch of socialists who are trying to "make everyone equal." That's called fantasy land. And they can go through any number of mental contortions about why someone who mops a floor at the 7-11 should make as much as an accountant. Here's why you'll never shut those people up. Because not everyone in the world is successful. And it's much easier to just say "you know what, I deserve more money!" than to actually earn it, so that's what all the unsuccessful people do. (By the way, that's how you get people whose entire careers are "being activists." And guess who pays their salaries? You do. That's right, when you see some crazy woman screeching at you about how you're the problem, chances are she's being paid to do that by you.)

Take a look at minimum wage. First of all, there should be no such thing. But since there is, you constantly hear people demand that it be increased. Why? Because the people who are performing minimum wage jobs don't want to learn how to do anything else. They still want to just mop the floor ...but magically get paid twice as much for it. "Well, you get raises." Yeah, I might, but that's because my employer voluntarily decided to give me one, not because of legislation forcing him to. The only people who have mandatory wage increases are people on minimum wage and public sector employees. There's a reason for that.

All welfare has done is train people that they can do nothing and still get by. As long as they continue to vote for the people who give them the money (of other people). That's right, when you boil it down to its essence, welfare is merely a vote-buying scheme enacted by one political party. And they can try to dress it up all they want to distract you from it, but there it is.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,768,722 times
Reputation: 24863
Why should everyone be COMPELLED to work when the really rich are not.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:30 AM
 
172 posts, read 159,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Why should everyone be COMPELLED to work when the really rich are not.
Nobody's compelled to work. For example, one could starve to death and then die.

By the way, this is what I was talking about when I said "they go through mental contortions to justify socialism." This guy just said "why should I, who have no money, have to act any differently than the rich, who have lots of money??" And then he sauntered away in self-satisfaction at the irrefutable argument he made. Meanwhile, everyone else is like "wait, what?"
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:51 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,249,013 times
Reputation: 8520
The person who mops the floor is earning a living. The person who spends his time participating in political arguments in forums is not earning a living. Guess which of them is more likely to invent a better mop and become rich.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:56 AM
 
172 posts, read 159,051 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
The person who mops the floor is earning a living. The person who spends his time participating in political arguments in forums is not earning a living. Guess which of them is more likely to invent a better mop and become rich.
Another mental contortion, as you are attempting to imply that the person mopping the floor will invent a better mop. If they do, then the market will reward them with money, as you said. If not ...then what? Well, then you'll sit around and demand that they get paid more, regardless. So what's your point?
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,768,722 times
Reputation: 24863
A long time ago I invented several "better mops" but the companies I worked for claimed them and didn't give me any credit. I stopped inventing things for them.

If we really wanted to end welfare we could set countervailing tariffs on imports that eliminated or even punished foreign producers that used near slave labor, government subsidies and lax environmental standards to underprice domestically made producers. Even if the prices increased the demand for the products would result in so much more manufacturing that nearly every person on welfare would be offered several jobs. The need for a minimum wage would be eliminated by the labor shortage. The resulting income would then allow these folks to but the products they produce.

One problem with this is the investor classes both hear and overseas would be devastated. The other is the Chinese people would soon demand to be able to buy the things they produce to the annoyance of their investors and the Chinese Communist Government.
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:11 AM
 
172 posts, read 159,051 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
If we really wanted to end welfare we could set countervailing tariffs on imports that eliminated or even punished foreign producers that used near slave labor, government subsidies and lax environmental standards to underprice domestically made producers.
Why should we do any of that? See, for example let's say you're for a minimum wage. Great. But then you demand that simultaneously we should prevent anyone from using labor from anywhere that doesn't have a minimum wage. That's because you inherently and correctly understand that your policy that you supported drives up labor costs. And rather than allow anyone to choose what worker to use (because you also correctly understand they would not choose your workers), you instead demand that government force them to make "the right choice" with tariffs and fines and laws. And then here's the best part: you probably then enter into arguments with people where you say that there is no proof that a minimum wage drives up labor costs and start citing data and economists. This, despite the fact that you actually know that you're disseminating false information based on your demand for laws forcing people to obey your edicts. I've seen it once and I've seen it a thousand times.
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Native of Any Beach/FL
35,688 posts, read 21,042,380 times
Reputation: 14239
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatAngMoh View Post
The cure for welfare is actually education and to somehow create interest in it. Yes, the education system has always been around and there are free or near free public schools. However, the motivation must come from within and from the family unit to nurture and encourage pursuit of academics. When you have a ghetto kid thinking a $200 pair of basketball shoes is more important than a book there's a problem. When an iPad is used to watch movies, videos and listen to music instead of to read, even if its just the news to open one's world up to possibilities, that's a problem.

I am old enough to know the decay of the family began when the husband's salary did NOT make enough to provide for the family n mommy had to go to work- it has been bad ever since. We as a nation have created a lot of our own woes - cutting back extra curriculums in school that made the young person excited about going to school... some college just CUT the entire football team- think thats not a BLOW and now kids leaving college in full blown debt- see the "IVORY TOWER" if they graduate at all-- Free media has been the worst thing for kids, ever!! all looks cool- until it happens, and reality sets in "you are not in a movie bud"- 20 yrs jail time. what?? We are hypocrites- we have no respect- seen people calling the prez a liar in full view- what you think that shows kids? and now the politicking like children allowing gov't shut downs- please--- and yes ALLLL is in full view, they see us for who we are, not who we say and drugs- soon all of us will be alcoholic pot heads -we have drug selling and prostitute pimpin because someone has MONEY to BUY-- we have NOT held up our end- to expect better.
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