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Stacking a team by violating residence rules is cheating plain and simple and should cause a win to be voided.
Had the team not been stacked would they have won? Maybe, maybe not. It would be interesting to see the Vegas team play the Chicago team without the players that were poached.
Kind of a mini world series, winner take all.
What happened is that the coach of a team that got ANNIHILATED when they played Jackie Robinson West began snooping around and throwing out allegations.
IMO, it won't matter in the eyes of the public and shouldn't matter to the players. They BEAT Las Vegas solely based on how well they played. In the end, they were the ones who got to play South Korea. That still make them national champions in my mind and possibly a lot of other people's as well.
I wish another action had been taken b/c this form of cheating doesn't affect how the kids play on the field (unlike using drugs or recruiting older kids). Something like this invalidates the hard works the kids put in just because of some boundary issues.
JRW beating Las Vegas 7-5 is not getting ANNIHILATED
JRW beating Las Vegas 7-5 is not getting ANNIHILATED
It wasn't the Las Vegas team doing the snooping, it was a team administrator from a close by suburb (North Riverside) who lost to JRW by double digits.
I think it's important for everyone to understand what happened here. JRW didn't poach any players, or use players from "outside their boundaries".
What happened was that some coaches submitted new boundaries to the District Little League, who approved the new boundaries without any input from other teams impacted by the change. That is what was against the rules - the other teams had to sign off on the changes, and they weren't even notified of those changes.
The JRW coaches who submitted the plan knew it was shady, but the LL district approved it so they moved forward with the new boundaries. Little League International also backed the changed boundaries throughout the season, and continued to do so until yesterday. Any parents or players would not have known what had happened, and if they checked with Little League officials at any level they would have been told the boundaries were approved and valid.
While the coaches who submitted the new map obviously bear a lot of the blame, the Little League organization bears a lot of responsibility as well - they were the ones who spent an entire season telling everyone that the team wasn't in violation of any rules. If they're going to be overseeing boundaries they need to actually do their jobs, and not let local districts make their own rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz Bee
It wasn't the Las Vegas team doing the snooping, it was a team administrator from a close by suburb (North Riverside) who lost to JRW by double digits.
I think it's important for everyone to understand what happened here. JRW didn't poach any players, or use players from "outside their boundaries".
What happened was that some coaches submitted new boundaries to the District Little League, who approved the new boundaries without any input from other teams impacted by the change. That is what was against the rules - the other teams had to sign off on the changes, and they weren't even notified of those changes.
The JRW coaches who submitted the plan knew it was shady, but the LL district approved it so they moved forward with the new boundaries. Little League International also backed the changed boundaries throughout the season, and continued to do so until yesterday. Any parents or players would not have known what had happened, and if they checked with Little League officials at any level they would have been told the boundaries were approved and valid.
While the coaches who submitted the new map obviously bear a lot of the blame, the Little League organization bears a lot of responsibility as well - they were the ones who spent an entire season telling everyone that the team wasn't in violation of any rules. If they're going to be overseeing boundaries they need to actually do their jobs, and not let local districts make their own rules.
It wasn't just double digits, it was 43-2.
Best Post in this Thread so far.
Repped!
The kids should not blamed for this!
It wasn't the Las Vegas team doing the snooping, it was a team administrator from a close by suburb (North Riverside) who lost to JRW by double digits.
What happened is that the coach of a team that got ANNIHILATED when they played Jackie Robinson West began snooping around and throwing out allegations.
IMO, it won't matter in the eyes of the public and shouldn't matter to the players. They BEAT Las Vegas solely based on how well they played. In the end, they were the ones who got to play South Korea. That still make them national champions in my mind and possibly a lot of other people's as well.
I wish another action had been taken b/c this form of cheating doesn't affect how the kids play on the field (unlike using drugs or recruiting older kids). Something like this invalidates the hard works the kids put in just because of some boundary issues.
Of course it will matter in the eyes of the public, as LL should be kept as clean as possible to teach kids right from wrong. Teaching them integrity is much more important than winning at any cost.
I guess it comes as no surprise that you are a poster from Chicago with this type of an attitude. I say this not as a personal attack, rather an observation of people who's thinking seems to be divergent from many others who come from different parts of the country.
I wonder if it is because there has historically been so much corruption in your city/state that the citizens become accustom to it
Heck, I think 4 of your last 7 governors have served jail time.
Probably most of Chicago's mayors in memory should be right along with them.
Whether it be ambivalence, apathy or something else, many from IL, and Chicago in particular, view integrity/morals with a jaded lens.
It seems as if many from your neck of the woods assume everyone thinks as you do, that the end justifies the means.
Lastly, did you ever consider how cheating effects all the other kids who had their chance to participate in the LLWS taken away from them?
ESPN is reporting that the good news is, it was still a Chicago team! Like, that matters.
Most folks believe the kids knew they were cheating. I haven't been able to find a real comment about that, but I suspect it's true. Kids know where they are eligible, and they know why they're being played by one team and not another.
My prediction is that no one involved will learn anything worth learning. They will teach themselves that everyone else is cheating, and they just got caught.
But Little League volunteers in other areas will take notice. Other teams and organizations will learn, but not the meat head managers in Chicago.
ESPN is reporting that the good news is, it was still a Chicago team! Like, that matters.
Most folks believe the kids knew they were cheating. I haven't been able to find a real comment about that, but I suspect it's true. Kids know where they are eligible, and they know why they're being played by one team and not another.
My prediction is that no one involved will learn anything worth learning. They will teach themselves that everyone else is cheating, and they just got caught.
But Little League volunteers in other areas will take notice. Other teams and organizations will learn, but not the meat head managers in Chicago.
You really think the kids knew? I'm pretty sure the kids don't think about boundaries and the rules around this... I know I had no idea as a kid, I just knew I was on a team...
Wasn't there a situation a few years back, also to do with LL baseball, involving altered birth certificates ?
And players who were illegal in the USA, in terms of their Immigration status ?
Jim B. In Toronto.
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