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Radical Islam is not compatible with civilized society, period. Their history has been filled with massacres that keep being whitewashed.
One that I forgot about, until I went to the library yesterday, was the massacre of Armenians. During WW I the Ottomans killed about 1,000,000 Armenians. The history of attacks on helpless civilians in Palestine (now Israel), Iran, and now by ISIS is endless.
And yet, we pretend not to have a problem. Go figure.
I have created a thread on the long history of Arab and Muslim animosity towards the West (link). These attacks are not isolated criminal events. They are at war with us and we need to treat it that way.
I think you're missing the point - pretty unbelievable at this late stage - Bush's invasion of Iraq was probably the biggest blunder in US history, not least because it was a gift to the Islamists. The fact that so-called ISIS is in the position that it is now, is largely thanks to that blunder. Saddam, as much of a monster as he was, was essentially a secularist, a bulwark against Islamism. You don't have to be a tree-hugging peacenik to see the folly of that Mesopotamian misadventure, merely informed.
There can never be a thread on terrorism, muslims, or the Middle East without the haters of George W. Bush coming out of the woodwork. Didn't the US make a blunder when it overthrew the Iranian government and installed the Shah of Iran in 1953? How about the blunder when Jimmy Carter encouraged the Iranian radicals to overthrow the Shah in 1979 because he wanted them to be free? How about when Ronald Reagan invaded Afghanistan in 1980 to defend it from the Soviets and ended up arming AlQueda? How about when GHW Bush rescued Kuwait, but refused to go into Baghdad and take out Saddam Hussein? How about when Bill Clinton could have had bin Laden given to him as a prisoner in the late 1990s, but he refused? How about when Obama during the Arab Spring encouraged everyone to revolt because he wanted all the muslim countries to be free? The US has made many blunders and invading Iraq might not have been the best decision, but hindsight is always 20/20 and GW Bush will still be a hero.
There can never be a thread on terrorism, muslims, or the Middle East without the haters of George W. Bush coming out of the woodwork. Didn't the US make a blunder when it overthrew the Iranian government and installed the Shah of Iran in 1953? How about the blunder when Jimmy Carter encouraged the Iranian radicals to overthrow the Shah in 1979 because he wanted them to be free? How about when Ronald Reagan invaded Afghanistan in 1980 to defend it from the Soviets and ended up arming AlQueda? How about when GHW Bush rescued Kuwait, but refused to go into Baghdad and take out Saddam Hussein? How about when Bill Clinton could have had bin Laden given to him as a prisoner in the late 1990s, but he refused? How about when Obama during the Arab Spring encouraged everyone to revolt because he wanted all the muslim countries to be free? The US has made many blunders and invading Iraq might not have been the best decision, but hindsight is always 20/20 and GW Bush will still be a hero.
Everything you said does not make Bush a hero, at all.
Bin Laden's son gave an interview in Rolling Stone in 2010 saying that they were praying that Bush was elected, because they knew he would be dumb enough to get drawn into the war.
He even let bin Laden escape into Waziristan, despite a Marine detachment being less than 20 miles away, because Cheney knew it would make a great excuse for continuing the war and fattening his Halliburton buddies' pockets and Bush was stupid enough to go along with it.
Bush created the biggest orgy of government growth that existed in U.S. history up until Obama. He created the TSA, the NSA dragnet spying program, the department of homeland security, launched two of the costliest wars in U.S. history, stood by silently as FEMA was ordered by Ray Nagin to confiscate guns during the exact time when gun owners need them most, expanded Medicaire, fought a war for the Iranians, and destabilized the entire Middle East based on what Colin Powell and Larry Wilkerson knew were lies before their own presentations to the U.N.
Oh, and he oversaw the rendition program, authorized the use of torture knowing it would extract convenient lies out of detainees about Saadam's fake "connection" to al-Qaida, refused to fire Alberto Gonzalez at the OLC, and paid Islam Karimov to boil people alive.
AND... him and Cheney and Douglas Fithe and Richard Perle fell for Ahmed Chalabi's bull****, despite the fact that the guy had been a known two-timing liar for like two decades.
How can you actually think Bush was a hero? Fox News has depleted your brain of its best functioning cells, I suspect.
Jews face retribution around the world because people place collective blame on them for the wacko **** Israel does.
It's twisted logic, to be sure, but the Israeli government is REALLY ****ing nasty to Muslims broadly, despite what the American propaganda machine would have you believe. Here's an example:
Think about it.... EVERY U.S. politician CLAMORS for to defend Israel against anyone who says it does anything wrong ever. Doesn't that stink just slightly, knowing that those things politicians cry the most about are generally the biggest lies?
I'm not saying anti-semitism is a morally acceptable reaction, but the fire is certainly being stoked by Israeli government action, over and over and over.
Please, Jews have been facing retribution since the dawn of their existence. Recent Islamists' attacks have nothing to do with Israel's actions and everything to do with their obsession with destroying Israel and the Jewish people.
Israel has been under attack since it announced independence solely because it is a Jewish state. Those Arab nations that attacked Israel would have taken no such collective action against an "outside" Islamist group declaring independence in that territory (heck, you can barely get Arab nations to lift a finger to fight ISIS).
Israel demolished numerous Palestinian homes as these homes were used as sanctuary for Hamas' agents launching attacks on Israelis of all ethnic backgrounds and faiths; indeed, those rocket attacks don't discriminate on the basis of faith or ethnic background or race! But, let's be clear, Arab and Muslim Israelis face greater freedoms and independence than they do ANYWHERE in the Arab/Islamic world! Nowhere in Israel are women legally prohibited from driving, voting, traveling without a male relative's permission, whipped and lashed and stoned for adultery, or made to cover their hair and bodies least they offend men who can't control their repulsive and criminal urges. Additionally, men and women are allowed discriminated on the account of gender identity/orientation/etc. On the flipside, Jordan and other countries bordering Israel continue to refuse to assimilate their fellow Arab brothers and sisters living in refugee camps within their territories, instead unreasonably demanding that Israel back away from its founding principle of serving as a Jewish state.
Israel wants to live side by side with its neighbors in peace, but its neighbors aren't all interested in peace. Israel never invited war (unless you consider declaring independence as a Jewish state "inviting war"), but has always had to defend itself. For all of this criticism regarding Israel's actions of self defense, few countries would do anything different, and many would be far worse, not taking care to warn and seek the removal of civilians from cites targeted for airstrikes, etc.
If these recent attacks in Paris and Copenhagen are any indication, it doesn't take much to "stoke" the flame that is the hatred and antisemitism of radical Islamists.
And the US does express its disagreements with certain Israeli action. Where have you been? US administrations of both parties, including the GWB administration, have made clear that they view Israel's territory as being in the pre-1967 boundaries and have called out other actions by Israel. There is no pure US political acquiescence to all Israeli actions.
Note, just in case things aren't clear, I am not grouping all Muslims together when I write "radical Islamists!"
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 02-15-2015 at 05:18 PM..
Please, Jews have been facing retribution since the dawn of their existence. Recent Islamists' attacks have nothing to do with Israel's actions and everything to do with their obsession with destroying Israel and the Jewish people.
Israel has been under attack since it announced independence solely because it is a Jewish state. Those Arab nations that attacked Israel would have taken no such collective action against an "outside" Islamist group declaring independence in that territory (heck, you can barely get Arab nations to lift a finger to fight ISIS).
Israel demolished numerous Palestinian homes as these homes were used as sanctuary for Hamas' agents launching attacks on Israelis of all ethnic backgrounds and faiths; indeed, those rocket attacks don't discriminate on the basis of faith or ethnic background or race! But, let's be clear, Arab and Muslim Israelis face greater freedoms and independence than they do ANYWHERE in the Arab/Islamic world! Nowhere in Israel are women legally prohibited from driving, voting, traveling without a male relative's permission, whipped and lashed and stoned for adultery, or made to cover their hair and bodies least they offend men who can't control their repulsive and criminal urges. Additionally, men and women are allowed discriminated on the account of gender identity/orientation/etc. On the flipside, Jordan and other countries bordering Israel continue to refuse to assimilate their fellow Arab brothers and sisters living in refugee camps within their territories, instead unreasonably demanding that Israel back away from its founding principle of serving as a Jewish state.
Israel wants to live side by side with its neighbors in peace, but its neighbors aren't all interested in peace. Israel never invited war (unless you consider declaring independence as a Jewish state "inviting war"), but has always had to defend itself. For all of this criticism regarding Israel's actions of self defense, few countries would do anything different, and many would be far worse, not taking care to warn and seek the removal of civilians from cites targeted for airstrikes, etc.
If these recent attacks in Paris and Copenhagen are any indication, it doesn't take much to "stoke" the flame that is the hatred and antisemitism of radical Islamists.
And the US does express its disagreements with certain Israeli action. Where have you been? US administrations of both parties, including the GWB administration, have made clear that they view Israel's territory as being in the pre-1967 boundaries and have called out other actions by Israel. There is no pure US political acquiescence to all Israeli actions.
Note, just in case things aren't clear, I am not grouping all Muslims together when I write "radical Islamists!"
Shhhh, what you're saying doesn't fit the current anti-jew meme that's all the rage nowadays.
And the US does express its disagreements with certain Israeli action. Where have you been? US administrations of both parties, including the GWB administration, have made clear that they view Israel's territory as being in the pre-1967 boundaries and have called out other actions by Israel. There is no pure US political acquiescence to all Israeli actions.
It is worthy of note that the "1967 borders" were armistice lines that have never been accepted by the Arabs. The U.S., including GWB, is giving the Arabs a fourth mulligan by urging Israel to retreat to those borders. The first three failed Arab efforts were the 1948, 1967 and 1973 wars. Why should the Arabs get yet another do-over/
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
Note, just in case things aren't clear, I am not grouping all Muslims together when I write "radical Islamists!"
The other Muslims, with a few shining exceptions, are doing nothing to isolate the "radical Islamists." Think the mainstream Jewish treatment of Meyer Kahane.
There can never be a thread on terrorism, muslims, or the Middle East without the haters of George W. Bush coming out of the woodwork. Didn't the US make a blunder when it overthrew the Iranian government and installed the Shah of Iran in 1953? How about the blunder when Jimmy Carter encouraged the Iranian radicals to overthrow the Shah in 1979 because he wanted them to be free? How about when Ronald Reagan invaded Afghanistan in 1980 to defend it from the Soviets and ended up arming AlQueda? How about when GHW Bush rescued Kuwait, but refused to go into Baghdad and take out Saddam Hussein? How about when Bill Clinton could have had bin Laden given to him as a prisoner in the late 1990s, but he refused? How about when Obama during the Arab Spring encouraged everyone to revolt because he wanted all the muslim countries to be free? The US has made many blunders and invading Iraq might not have been the best decision, but hindsight is always 20/20 and GW Bush will still be a hero.
It was clear at the time that Iraq was a blunder. Saddam was the same man who had earlier been presented with a pair of golden spurs by Donald Rumsfeld - from Ronald Reagan. Remember the talk of WMD - the farce at the UN when Colin Powell presented the apparent casus belli - holding up some vial and pointing at a photo of some truck? - you could almost feel a palpable cringe as the delegates, and the world took in the theater of the absurd. Recall the advice of the weapons inspectors stating that there was no evidence of WMD? And in the background, the murmur of some vague and preposterous suggestion that there could possibly be some collusion between Saddam and the actors of 9/11? Saddam, a secularist in cahoots with a bunch of Islamists, people who in fact were his enemies, yet. And the American public, for the most part not knowing the difference between one damn Arab and the other, looking for payback and being duped by a bunch of obvious charlatans and crony capitalists? As for keeping one's powder dry, the US sp***ed its load on an unnecessary (in fact far worse than unnecessary) and debilitating war - for the US (never mind the poor bloody Iraqis).
Yes, there's a pretty direct correlation between so-called ISIS and the Iraq folly. 'Iraq might not have been the best decision' takes understatement into new realms of minimization.
Bush a hero? Of course, may he forever swagger across that proverbial flight deck.
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