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You're making excuses for Muslim terrorists to the point that you don't even make sense. How isit reactionary to the US and Israel for ISIS to burn a Jordanian pilot alive, behead Christian Arabs, or toss gay Arab Muslim men off of buildings?
agree
when the poster resorts to name calling the point is lost anyway
You're making excuses for Muslim terrorists to the point that you don't even make sense. How isit reactionary to the US and Israel for ISIS to burn a Jordanian pilot alive, behead Christian Arabs, or toss gay Arab Muslim men off of buildings?
Okay, if you're ACTUALLY going to read the response, I'll explain it for you.
It goes like this:
The Americans have a long history of respecting, for the most part, domestic freedoms. We have protecting liberties enshrined in our constitution, which is founded on the principles of the enlightenment and the idea that government ought to be limited in its abilities to lord over our daily affairs. Because we have such a long, entrenched tradition of respecting rights, our politicians are in turn, if they wish to keep their political careers, forced to pander to these rights in their public speeches regarding basically anything at all. If they want to kill a whole bunch of people in another country that did nothing to us at all, then they have to spin it as having something to do with freedom, because that's what our traditions dictate they care about and so they wouldn't be able to keep their own political ambitions alive or accomplish their ends if they didn't do that. It's not that they care about our freedoms (cases in point: George Bush and Barack Obama), but they at least have to pretend like they do in order to keep their jobs.
Okay, so, it's basically understood around the whole globe that Western Civilization is founded on the enlightenment principles which were enshrined in the American constitution. Most people on the globe are collectivists, as you and many others are here when you articulate the belief that the Israeli Government represents "the Jews." Most people around the globe believe that the American Government, likewise, represents "the Americans." They also, likewise, believe that the U.S. is the leader of Western Civilization, and that it's representative of those Western values, because they see people like Barack Obama and his ilk on their podiums giving political sermons about the importance of freedom, democracy, etc. When that same government that makes those same speeches then turns around and, say, bombs and blockades a whole bunch of innocent civilians in that country, they in turn come to believe that Western Civilization is a big hypocritical monolith motivating U.S. interests and founded on lies about freedom and liberty, etc.
So, that same "beacon" of Western Civilization (the American Government) that tries to "free" and "liberate" the world is actually, and has been, killing Muslims since H.W.'s dumb ass decided it was a good idea to give Sadaam the green light to invade Kuwait, and then turned around and killed a whole bunch of his troops as they were retreating. That same government then placed military bases on the holiest land in all of Islam, uninvited by any of the Muslims in the region. Can you imagine the backlash if the U.S. was suddenly seized by a dictator who invited Russians and Chinese to build military bases in Texas? Yeah, right.
Then, that same empire masquerading behind the rhetoric of freedom and the value of Western Civilization conducts ENORMOUS bombing raids and blockades of entire countries full of innocent Muslims from their holiest land. There was the first gulf war, the Iraq blockades, the al-Shifa bombing, further Sudanese bombing, the list goes on. Then on top of all of that, that same empire that extols the virtues of Western Civilization and Democratic values supports, in no uncertain terms, all of the most horrible dictators in the region at one point or another. The House of Saud only maintains power because of U.S. backing. Assad, for a while, was also our guy. So was Hosni Mubarak, Moammar Qaddafi (twice), the guy in Tunisia whose name I forget, the Bahraini royal family and the ruling Sheiks in the UAE. The U.S. also regime changed a democratically elected leader in Iran and installed a guy whose secret police ran roughshod over the entire country at will, surpressing all dissent. Imagine for even one second that the Iranians did that to us, and installed a radical-Shia-friendly dictator with evil secret police who killed any dissenters for 26 straight years. Think there would be backlash?
Anyway, at first, these guys lash out at these Western nations, thinking they're so rife with hypocrisy because their leaders are, and they, just like you, equate their leaders with the people themselves, not understanding that governments are rulers and not representatives. So they suicide bomb the twin towers and do a whole bunch of horrible stuff to us, because they want to get at our government and they have no army whatsoever to fight back with. It's out of desperation, at first. Then, after a while, when our government tries to subvert their insurgency and these radical suicide bombing lunatics are the only people that are actually standing up to us, they recruit more and more people. Eventually, they become a legitimized movement with their own radical ideology that only ever came to power because people needed SOME way to fight back. Then, they go and do the crazy **** they do SPECIFICALLY to provoke a reaction from the West, and to demonstrate to themselves and to their constituents whose homes and families and livelihoods have been destroyed by Western governments just how anti-Western they are. Why do you think they film all this stuff and put it on YouTube? It's designed both to generate a reaction of recoil in the West, and to show their own sympathizers just how anti-Western they are.
Look at, for example, the things you named. They burned a Jordanian alive. Why a Jordanian? Because they know that the Hashemite rulers of that country are nothing more than Western puppets and, using the same collective logic as you, believe that they're getting back at the West by attacking those who do its dirty work. Same with the Christian Arabs. Who was in Fallujah shooting innocent babies and their mothers with depleted Uranium rounds? Nominally Christian Americans. It doesn't mean that the Americans were there for religious motivations, but to a people for whom religion is such a core part of day-to-day life, it sure looks that way. So that's why they lash out at Christians. What about gays? Why kill gays? Well, to them, they believe we are totally okay with homosexuality here in the West and so, yet again, they choose innocent people to kill because they're supposed to represent a larger opposition to the West in general.
It's all a giant reaction and attempt to show the world just how non-Western they are, since the West just bombed and starved and blockaded and murdered them into oblivion for the last half a decade, and DEFINITELY for the last thirty years.
Okay, if you're ACTUALLY going to read the response, I'll explain it for you.
It goes like this:
The Americans have a long history of respecting, for the most part, domestic freedoms. We have protecting liberties enshrined in our constitution, which is founded on the principles of the enlightenment and the idea that government ought to be limited in its abilities to lord over our daily affairs. Because we have such a long, entrenched tradition of respecting rights, our politicians are in turn, if they wish to keep their political careers, forced to pander to these rights in their public speeches regarding basically anything at all. If they want to kill a whole bunch of people in another country that did nothing to us at all, then they have to spin it as having something to do with freedom, because that's what our traditions dictate they care about and so they wouldn't be able to keep their own political ambitions alive or accomplish their ends if they didn't do that. It's not that they care about our freedoms (cases in point: George Bush and Barack Obama), but they at least have to pretend like they do in order to keep their jobs.
Okay, so, it's basically understood around the whole globe that Western Civilization is founded on the enlightenment principles which were enshrined in the American constitution. Most people on the globe are collectivists, as you and many others are here when you articulate the belief that the Israeli Government represents "the Jews." Most people around the globe believe that the American Government, likewise, represents "the Americans." They also, likewise, believe that the U.S. is the leader of Western Civilization, and that it's representative of those Western values, because they see people like Barack Obama and his ilk on their podiums giving political sermons about the importance of freedom, democracy, etc. When that same government that makes those same speeches then turns around and, say, bombs and blockades a whole bunch of innocent civilians in that country, they in turn come to believe that Western Civilization is a big hypocritical monolith motivating U.S. interests and founded on lies about freedom and liberty, etc.
So, that same "beacon" of Western Civilization (the American Government) that tries to "free" and "liberate" the world is actually, and has been, killing Muslims since H.W.'s dumb ass decided it was a good idea to give Sadaam the green light to invade Kuwait, and then turned around and killed a whole bunch of his troops as they were retreating. That same government then placed military bases on the holiest land in all of Islam, uninvited by any of the Muslims in the region. Can you imagine the backlash if the U.S. was suddenly seized by a dictator who invited Russians and Chinese to build military bases in Texas? Yeah, right.
Then, that same empire masquerading behind the rhetoric of freedom and the value of Western Civilization conducts ENORMOUS bombing raids and blockades of entire countries full of innocent Muslims from their holiest land. There was the first gulf war, the Iraq blockades, the al-Shifa bombing, further Sudanese bombing, the list goes on. Then on top of all of that, that same empire that extols the virtues of Western Civilization and Democratic values supports, in no uncertain terms, all of the most horrible dictators in the region at one point or another. The House of Saud only maintains power because of U.S. backing. Assad, for a while, was also our guy. So was Hosni Mubarak, Moammar Qaddafi (twice), the guy in Tunisia whose name I forget, the Bahraini royal family and the ruling Sheiks in the UAE. The U.S. also regime changed a democratically elected leader in Iran and installed a guy whose secret police ran roughshod over the entire country at will, surpressing all dissent. Imagine for even one second that the Iranians did that to us, and installed a radical-Shia-friendly dictator with evil secret police who killed any dissenters for 26 straight years. Think there would be backlash?
Anyway, at first, these guys lash out at these Western nations, thinking they're so rife with hypocrisy because their leaders are, and they, just like you, equate their leaders with the people themselves, not understanding that governments are rulers and not representatives. So they suicide bomb the twin towers and do a whole bunch of horrible stuff to us, because they want to get at our government and they have no army whatsoever to fight back with. It's out of desperation, at first. Then, after a while, when our government tries to subvert their insurgency and these radical suicide bombing lunatics are the only people that are actually standing up to us, they recruit more and more people. Eventually, they become a legitimized movement with their own radical ideology that only ever came to power because people needed SOME way to fight back. Then, they go and do the crazy **** they do SPECIFICALLY to provoke a reaction from the West, and to demonstrate to themselves and to their constituents whose homes and families and livelihoods have been destroyed by Western governments just how anti-Western they are. Why do you think they film all this stuff and put it on YouTube? It's designed both to generate a reaction of recoil in the West, and to show their own sympathizers just how anti-Western they are.
Look at, for example, the things you named. They burned a Jordanian alive. Why a Jordanian? Because they know that the Hashemite rulers of that country are nothing more than Western puppets and, using the same collective logic as you, believe that they're getting back at the West by attacking those who do its dirty work. Same with the Christian Arabs. Who was in Fallujah shooting innocent babies and their mothers with depleted Uranium rounds? Nominally Christian Americans. It doesn't mean that the Americans were there for religious motivations, but to a people for whom religion is such a core part of day-to-day life, it sure looks that way. So that's why they lash out at Christians. What about gays? Why kill gays? Well, to them, they believe we are totally okay with homosexuality here in the West and so, yet again, they choose innocent people to kill because they're supposed to represent a larger opposition to the West in general.
It's all a giant reaction and attempt to show the world just how non-Western they are, since the West just bombed and starved and blockaded and murdered them into oblivion for the last half a decade, and DEFINITELY for the last thirty years.
Argue that, please.
Please! I lived in the Middle East and yes, the Arab world has been humiliated. But you are basically arguing that all of these atrocities are based on grievances: the founding of the Israeli state, Palestinian refugees, US support of dictators, US support of Israel, US embargo on Iraq, US invasion of Iraq, and etc.
But don't be fooled to try to rationalize all of this as a reason for Islamic terrorism. Or a way to "get back." How would you then explain Muslim extremists such as Boko Haram in Nigeria? Why were Buddhist statues demolished in Afghanistan? Why did Iran destroy Zoroarastrian temples? Why don't you look at the Al-Saud family who are spending billions on spreading Wahabi ideology throughout the world.
You completely disregard the fact that Islamic teaching is problematic. It "corrects" the "corrupted" Bible. Read the Koran and every other page, it calls non Muslims "Kufar" (Infidels). Look at Mohammed's life of being a warlord who pillaged, killed, raped, burned, etc. (Of course, Apologists will say...oh he was defending himself." "Moderate" Muslims always say that ISIS's behavior is non-Islamic. Perhaps these Moderate Muslims can fool Western people, but go take a pool of Arab Christians, and ask them about the Koran. Ask them about Islamic fascism. Islam's inception was war, killing, and being spread by the sword. Yes, Christianity was also spread in the same way, but not by its founder, and not by its religious texts. Why have we never seen one single Iraqi Christian blow up a mosque or engage in the same atrocities? How many Palestinian Christians have become suicide bombers? Imams every Friday spew out poison with Islamic teachings. This is haram, this is Kafir, this is bla bla bla.
Your article has absolutely nothing to do with the people that were massacred and has nothing to do with this thread. Have you ever been to Egypt? Coptic Christians are not Palestinian Christians. They are native to Egypt and are one of the oldest Christian communities in the middle east.
Why are you trying to misdirect this thread?
Yes, they pulled away from the Roman Catholic church and Eastern Orthodox church around 400AD.
The Copts have always been treated very poorly in Egypt and glad to see the Egyptian president respond that they were Egyptian citizens and leave their religion out of it.
Okay, if you're ACTUALLY going to read the response, I'll explain it for you.
I have read it carefully and am most unimpressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
Okay, so, it's basically understood around the whole globe that Western Civilization is founded on the enlightenment principles which were enshrined in the American constitution. Most people on the globe are collectivists, as you and many others are here when you articulate the belief that the Israeli Government represents "the Jews."
We don't say they represent us. We say they provide a safe haven for us when other lands become unsafe, as Arab lands did in the 20th Century or France is now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
Most people around the globe believe that the American Government, likewise, represents "the Americans." They also, likewise, believe that the U.S. is the leader of Western Civilization, and that it's representative of those Western values
It should represent those values but hasn't since January 20, 2009.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
... because they see people like Barack Obama and his ilk on their podiums giving political sermons about the importance of freedom, democracy, etc.
In his case not believing what he's saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
When that same government that makes those same speeches then turns around and, say, bombs and blockades a whole bunch of innocent civilians in that country, they in turn come to believe that Western Civilization is a big hypocritical monolith motivating U.S. interests and founded on lies about freedom and liberty, etc.
There is no question that we have to fight the barbarians where they are rather than where we are. September 11 is a great illustration of what happens when the fight is here, not there. So is Charlie Hebdo and now, Copenhagen the other day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
So, that same "beacon" of Western Civilization (the American Government) that tries to "free" and "liberate" the world is actually, and has been, killing Muslims since H.W.'s dumb ass decided it was a good idea to give Sadaam the green light to invade Kuwait, and then turned around and killed a whole bunch of his troops as they were retreating.
Saddam chose to interpret a somewhat ambiguous statement as a "green light." The West developed Kuwaiti and Iraqi resources and the President had the right to protect those resources or at least ensure their availability to the civilized world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
That same government then placed military bases on the holiest land in all of Islam, uninvited by any of the Muslims in the region. Can you imagine the backlash if the U.S. was suddenly seized by a dictator who invited Russians and Chinese to build military bases in Texas? Yeah, right.
Then, that same empire masquerading behind the rhetoric of freedom and the value of Western Civilization conducts ENORMOUS bombing raids and blockades of entire countries full of innocent Muslims from their holiest land. There was the first gulf war, the Iraq blockades, the al-Shifa bombing, further Sudanese bombing, the list goes on.
The Muslims invaded the site holiest to the Jews and Christians, i.e. the Temple Mount and defiled it with a mosque. They tried the same trick with Ground Zero. Their selection of places of significance to others for defilement is not accidental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
Then on top of all of that, that same empire that extols the virtues of Western Civilization and Democratic values supports, in no uncertain terms, all of the most horrible dictators in the region at one point or another. The House of Saud only maintains power because of U.S. backing. Assad, for a while, was also our guy. So was Hosni Mubarak, Moammar Qaddafi (twice), the guy in Tunisia whose name I forget, the Bahraini royal family and the ruling Sheiks in the UAE.
Again it was our oil companies that made those areas wealthy. The West is not forced to hand over the keys to any yahoo that seizes them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
The U.S. also regime changed a democratically elected leader in Iran and installed a guy whose secret police ran roughshod over the entire country at will, surpressing all dissent. Imagine for even one second that the Iranians did that to us, and installed a radical-Shia-friendly dictator with evil secret police who killed any dissenters for 26 straight years. Think there would be backlash?
The history of Mossadegh is not so one-sided. His "election" was more like what the Russians did in the Crimea last spring than a real election.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
Anyway, at first, these guys lash out at these Western nations, thinking they're so rife with hypocrisy because their leaders are, and they, just like you, equate their leaders with the people themselves, not understanding that governments are rulers and not representatives. So they suicide bomb the twin towers and do a whole bunch of horrible stuff to us, because they want to get at our government and they have no army whatsoever to fight back with. It's out of desperation, at first. Then, after a while, when our government tries to subvert their insurgency and these radical suicide bombing lunatics are the only people that are actually standing up to us, they recruit more and more people. Eventually, they become a legitimized movement with their own radical ideology that only ever came to power because people needed SOME way to fight back. Then, they go and do the crazy **** they do SPECIFICALLY to provoke a reaction from the West, and to demonstrate to themselves and to their constituents whose homes and families and livelihoods have been destroyed by Western governments just how anti-Western they are. Why do you think they film all this stuff and put it on YouTube? It's designed both to generate a reaction of recoil in the West, and to show their own sympathizers just how anti-Western they are.
Look at, for example, the things you named. They burned a Jordanian alive. Why a Jordanian? Because they know that the Hashemite rulers of that country are nothing more than Western puppets and, using the same collective logic as you, believe that they're getting back at the West by attacking those who do its dirty work. Same with the Christian Arabs. Who was in Fallujah shooting innocent babies and their mothers with depleted Uranium rounds? Nominally Christian Americans. It doesn't mean that the Americans were there for religious motivations, but to a people for whom religion is such a core part of day-to-day life, it sure looks that way. So that's why they lash out at Christians. What about gays? Why kill gays? Well, to them, they believe we are totally okay with homosexuality here in the West and so, yet again, they choose innocent people to kill because they're supposed to represent a larger opposition to the West in general.
It's all a giant reaction and attempt to show the world just how non-Western they are, since the West just bombed and starved and blockaded and murdered them into oblivion for the last half a decade, and DEFINITELY for the last thirty years.
Argue that, please.
All of these events are atrocities despite your attempt to explain them away. Some of it is embedded in the local culture. For example, did the Carthaginians' engagement in slaughter of babies constitute a reaction to the "West"? Or the Amelkites' or Jebusites' "fighting" stragglers among the Hebrew migrators constitute a response to "incitement"? Since the days of Marco Polo the people in that area have demonstrated their savagery. And their treatment of their own is worse in many cases than their treatment of Westerners. Ever try holding a gay rights demonstration in these "holiest of lands"? Or having a female drive?
Yes, they pulled away from the Roman Catholic church and Eastern Orthodox church around 400AD.
The Copts have always been treated very poorly in Egypt and glad to see the Egyptian president respond that they were Egyptian citizens and leave their religion out of it.
10% of Egypt's population is Coptic. They have had churches burned down and members killed in Egypt since Mubarak fell. If the Muslim Brotherhood was still in charge in Egypt it's likely this act would have been ignored. Yeah, that should be the topic here, not some long diatribe on America and Israel.
Unfortunately this topic has been hijacked by an anti-Semite. Where are the mods to put this thread back on track? Probably too late.
10% of Egypt's population is Coptic. They have had churches burned down and members killed in Egypt since Mubarak fell. If the Muslim Brotherhood was still in charge in Egypt it's likely this act would have been ignored. Yeah, that should be the topic here, not some long diatribe on America and Israel.
Unfortunately this topic has been hijacked by an anti-Semite. Where are the mods to put this thread back on track? Probably too late.
Agree, they should start their own thread on USA/Israel relations as it has nothing at all too do with the slaughter of 21 Copts
I only know about the Copts from my daughters best friend, the way they were treated is why her parents left Egypt. My daughter has attended a Coptic church in NJ with her and remarked it's not really too different from the Catholic church.
By the way love the title of the thread "Christian Muslims" if ever an oxymoron...lol
I'm not anti-Semitic. You're using bin-Laden logic. See... He believed that the Israeli government represents all Jewish people everywhere, and so was justified in ordering their attacks. I don't even blame Jews LIVING IN ISRAEL for what their government does. They're a government, which means they have an enormous propaganda machine that works to legitimize them among their own constituents day in and day out. You're falling into that same propaganda trap. Or maybe you just really like bin Laden. Or! maybe you're a liberal. You know, like when you point out an obvious truism about black people in America like, say, they commit crimes at a higher rate than white people, and you're a racist? Maybe you really are a lefty-liberal bin-Laden lover, though. I don't know you.
Also, seeking motives for violent behavior, and trying to excuse it, are two different things. If, say, a woman murdered her husband in cold blood in his sleep, and a detective found out that he had been abusive, that doesn't excuse the woman for being a murderer, nor does it mean the detective was apologizing for her, but it certainly provides context for her behavior. This is the identical process in which I am engaging. You, meanwhile, are falling right in line like a good little American sheep who hasn't learned to think for himself and conflating my contempt for Israeli politicians and my assertion of motive with being anti-Semitic and a terrorist apologist. How old are you, man? Because, if you're a grown adult, I can't tell by way of your capacity to reason effectively. You ALWAYS have to try and view a conflict by envisioning the enemies of each side as they envision them. It doesn't make those people right, but it certainly pushes you closer to conflict resolution. I remember learning that in like, second grade. Maybe you didn't. Let's continue, though.
"The Jews" part has been dealt with above. I never once said "the Jews," but rather, "the Israeli Government," which is different. I opposed the war in Iraq, and the one in Afghanistan, and the one in Libya, and the one in Syria they tried to pull off, and the drone wars in Somalia, Waziristan, and Yemen. As one of "the Americans," I had NOTHING to do with those terrible murder campaigns. The Israeli government, as much as Netanyahu AND bin Laden would love you to believe it, does not represent "the Jews" as a whole.
Muslims are, in fact, being killed by other Muslims. I did not deny this either. What I'm saying is that the roots of these wingnuts like ISIS and Arar al-Sham and Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic Front and the Northern Storm Brigade and Boko Haram and AQAP and Al-Qaida in the Sahel lie in foreign occupation. Do you think it's just like, this miraculous coincidence that all of these groups pop up in places that are either:
a.) occupied by American troops, or
b.) ruled by dictators propped up by the American Government, or
c.) living under an American drone war, or
d.) the victims of a state that grovels over American interests?
And is it also a coincidence that somehow American and Israeli interests are supposed to be the exact same, according to the American and Israeli political classes? Perhaps, too, a coincidence that for every atrocity the Israeli government commits, and for every attempt to hold them to account on the international stage, they are protected by the United States?
Or, that al-Qaida PRIOR to the advent of the terror war was a few hundred wackos? But that radical Islamists post-Terror War are now everywhere? That's pretty simple logic, but hell, I don't know how smart lefty-liberal bin-Laden lovers really are.
As for it being a "democracy," ask the West Bank and Gazan Palestinians which Knesset members they last voted for. Oh... hah. Nevermind.
And they're the "most free?" Which is why 2500 of them were killed in a "defensive" bombing campaign last year, right? Because they're just SO free? Or why 1100 of them had their homes demolished to to "improper" building permits last year? Or why the Shin Bet can raid any Gazan or West Bank home they want without a warrant? Or why AI has proven that the IDF tortures Palestinian children in "military" prisons? Because they're just SO FREE, right?
In terms of domestic liberties, I don't disagree with you even one bit. Based on freedoms recognized by a state for its citizens, I would probably rather live in Israel than in ANY other state in the Middle East. That's also true of America and many Western European countries. It does not make their military or foreign policies any less horrible whatsoever, and actually has nothing to do with this argument. It also does not disprove my thesis that actions, specifically foreign actions, have consequences.
And 700,000 Palestinians, or 400,000 if you want to use the Israeli government's own estimate, were removed from Palestine 60 years ago. Does that justify all the horrible **** that the PLO and now PA and Hamas have done while claiming to "represent" the Palestinian people? No. Not at all. It has nothing to do with governments being justified in being terrible.
And the whole "Jews are at risk anywhere in Europe" is pretty over the top. I don't think even Fox News would really go that far. Even if 20 have been killed since ISIS broke off from Nusra, that's still a 1 in 500,000 chance. Which is about 10,000 times less likely than being in a car accident, and I'm not like, on-edge concerned I'm going to die every time I'm behind the wheel.
Now, if you want some brief, real history, which isn't full of MSNBC/CBS/Fox/Breitbart/Newsmax/CNN bull****, then allow me:
Before Theodore Herzl, there was a guy named Zvi Hirsch Kalischer. In 1861, he developed the idea of Jews returning to the Holy Land, because he believed the Messiah wasn't necessary to lead them back. His followers started founding these groups all over Eastern Europe called the "Lovers of Zion." These were religious groups that advocated a return to Palestine by the Jewish people. This actually pissed off Palestinian Jews the most who, despite largely being beggars and second-class citizens, had existed basically in peace with their Arab neighbors since the 1200s.
Then, Theodore Herzl came around and, despite being an Atheist, influenced a whole bunch of rich Marxist Jews and Orthodox Rabbis into believing that salvation lie in colonizing Israel. Then he started the World Zionist Organization, which absorbed most of the Lovers of Zion groups that had been disciples of Kalischer's. This was received so poorly by the Jews in Palestine that there were even Palestinian Jewish militias that would murder Jewish settlers to try and stop the freight train of conflict they knew was headed their way. But that didn't stop members of the WZO, or of their cronies in the British Empire, who sent a whole lot of religiously Orthodox and also socialist Jews there over a relatiely short period.
Then, the Orthodoxy co-opted much of the politics of the territory, and it became largely theocratic. The first Chief Rabbi appointed in Mandatory Palestine even claimed that the souls of non-Jews were less than that of cattle. Sounds a lot like something Hitler would say, right? Then, religiously-motivated groups that were pissed off following the Nazi Death Camps took their anger out on Palestinians and forced many of them out in the Nakba. Even the most devout Israeli-Zionist-Apologists don't deny that this happened. From there, it spiraled more and more towards ideological Jewish theocracy, as this Haaretz article explains:
And so the tensions mount as Israel gets away with more and more atrocities under the pretext of being Jewish cause, since Jews were murdered a lot, they can do whatever they want to anyone and it's just fine (says the Knesset).
It's not this like, wonderful bastion of peace and democracy that you seem to think it is.
Here is something to add to your thought process and one that might make someone think that Jews are at high risk nowadays.
Notice the extreme difference in the two highest stats and then think who constantly (since 9/11) screams,protests,marches the most and in fact has been talked about by our President repeatedly.
Of the 1,575 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:
* 71.9 percent were victims because of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
* 8.4 percent were victims because of an anti-Islamic bias.
And from the FBI 2012 Stats:
Religious bias
Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:
62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
7.5 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
6.4 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
2.6 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
0.9 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
8.6 percent were victims of a bias against other religions (anti-other religion). (Based on Table 1.) FBI — Victims
Lol! I just, you know, read stuff. Sometimes you gather facts from doing that, other times, you learn what Dennis Praeger wants you to think.
As long as you approve of the reading list, I suppose.
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