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No the Pope does not speak for everyone, however the opinion was (and still is) that vaccines produce so much benefit that it outweighs the issue. In fact the church ponted out the rubella vaccine prevents thousands of more miscarriages, and when put into perspective of original cells used to create the vaccine- well common sense prevailed.
And although the Church doesn not speak for everyone, that decision certainly DOES weaken the stance of exemptions based on 'religion'.
If you have total faith in all those processes, you must be really naive. People make mistakes which is normal but in the case of vaccines you are trusting hundreds of people to NOT make any mistakes based simply on faith.
Every time you purchase food at the grocery store you are having faith that what you are buying has been handled safely.
Every time you drive over a bridge you are having faith that the engineers who designed it and the people who constructed it knew what they were doing.
Every time you get on an airplane you are having faith that the machine will fly and the pilot will land it safely.
Just as there are safeguards in place to reduce the risk of food borne illnesses, collapsing bridges, and aeronautical mechanical failures or pilot errors, there are processes to ensure the safety of vaccines.
The fact remains that in the absence of vaccines the diseases they prevent cause many, many, many more deaths and disabilities. That is a fact, and no faith is involved.
Every time you purchase food at the grocery store you are having faith that what you are buying has been handled safely.
Every time you drive over a bridge you are having faith that the engineers who designed it and the people who constructed it knew what they were doing.
Every time you get on an airplane you are having faith that the machine will fly and the pilot will land it safely.
Just as there are safeguards in place to reduce the risk of food borne illnesses, collapsing bridges, and aeronautical mechanical failures or pilot errors, there are processes to ensure the safety of vaccines.
The fact remains that in the absence of vaccines the diseases they prevent cause many, many, many more deaths and disabilities. That is a fact, and no faith is involved.
Some people have faith in their immune system... no process involved.
Some people have faith in their immune system... no process involved.
I don't understand, why the above statement drives people so crazy that vaccinate. You can sit there and say fact this, fact that, but the FACT is, everyone should be able to make their own choices. There are consequences to most things, just because someone doesn't vaccinate doesn't mean their child is going to catch something, just because someone does vaccinate doesn't mean your child is protected. We need to stop putting people down for the choices that they make IN THEIR OWN LIVES, the hate towards people who don't vaccinate just astounds me. It must be so exhausting.
I don't understand, why the above statement drives people so crazy that vaccinate. You can sit there and say fact this, fact that, but the FACT is, everyone should be able to make their own choices. There are consequences to most things, just because someone doesn't vaccinate doesn't mean their child is going to catch something, just because someone does vaccinate doesn't mean your child is protected. We need to stop putting people down for the choices that they make IN THEIR OWN LIVES, the hate towards people who don't vaccinate just astounds me. It must be so exhausting.
People who do not vaccinate create consequences for other people. If the choice not to vaccinate affected only those unvaccinated by choice, those who do not vaccinate could just not vaccinate. The more who choose not to vaccinate, the greater the risk to all of us, however.
The facts do matter.
Should everyone be able to make any choice he wishes to make about anything? Should he be able to choose to drink and drive? Choose which side of the highway he wants to drive on? Choose to drive at any speed he wishes? Choose to beat or kill his spouse or child or anyone he wants? Choose to abuse his pets? Choose to not pay his debts? Choose to take his neighbor's property?
When choices affect those not involved in making the choice, the social contract demands that the effects of those choices on others be considered.
I don't understand, why the above statement drives people so crazy that vaccinate. You can sit there and say fact this, fact that, but the FACT is, everyone should be able to make their own choices. There are consequences to most things, just because someone doesn't vaccinate doesn't mean their child is going to catch something, just because someone does vaccinate doesn't mean your child is protected. We need to stop putting people down for the choices that they make IN THEIR OWN LIVES, the hate towards people who don't vaccinate just astounds me. It must be so exhausting.
This has been an extremely long thread and I don't expect that everyone who posts here will read every post first. Let me summarize the position of those who believe in compulsory vaccination laws:
1. Compulsory vaccination laws are needed because widespread vaccination of the population (90-95% is required to create the herd immunity that will stop particularly infectious diseases like measles, mumps, chicken pox dead in their tracks. Without compulsion it is impossible to obtain these vaccination rates. The reality of vaccination is that some people who are vaccinated will not become immune because their system doesn't respond vigorously. Some people are allergic to vaccine and cannot take it. Therefore, they need the rest of us to do our part. Finally, its not unheard of for vaccine to be ineffective in small batches when millions of doses are produced.
2. Anti-vaccine people talk about their lack of choice, but the reality is that laws like the law in California offer them a choice. They can either vaccinate their kids and send them to public school or refuse to vaccinate them and homeschool them. They may not like that particular choice, but it is a very real choice because tens of thousands of parents do homeschool their children.
3. Anti-vaccine people keep claiming that vaccines cause harm, but are consistently unable to demonstrate that any vaccine approved for use in this country (and mandated) causes an unreasonable risk of harm. When this information is requested it is never provided and instead we continue to engage in a sort "whack-a-mole" game where as soon as we respond to an allegation, the anti-vaccine people make another. Than when they run out of allegations, they start over again.
4. Anti-vaccine people keep trying to assert they have a *right* to choose not to vaccinate. This isn't true. The U.S. Supreme Court has considered a series of objections to mandatory vaccination laws and have rejected the challenges in every case put before the court. If you claim you have a "right" not to vaccinate that right is not supported by our legal system. Since the Supreme Court is the arbiter of our Constitution they have the final word on what it means not you, not your friends, and not a religious leader.
5. We aren't "putting down" people who refuse to vaccinate. We are rightly faulting them for making a foolhardy decision. I find their actions particularly bothersome because my wife and I made a point of seeing that our children got every recommended immunization. We worked hard to do our part to create and keep the "herd immunity" that prevents epidemics and pandemics of infectious disease that were part of American history. We have a right to expect others who want to send their children to public school with our children to do their part. If everyone refused to vaccinate their children these diseases would become a severe problem and would result in widespread morbidity and mortality. That's what this debate is about and I'm afraid its a little bit deeper than just saying "I shouldn't have to vaccinate my kids because I don't want too".
I don't understand, why the above statement drives people so crazy that vaccinate. You can sit there and say fact this, fact that, but the FACT is, everyone should be able to make their own choices. There are consequences to most things, just because someone doesn't vaccinate doesn't mean their child is going to catch something, just because someone does vaccinate doesn't mean your child is protected. We need to stop putting people down for the choices that they make IN THEIR OWN LIVES, the hate towards people who don't vaccinate just astounds me. It must be so exhausting.
It is exhausting to deal with misinformation masquerading as fact, and people that prioritize "spidey sense" over proven science. Vaccines are safe, effective, and a critical part of strong public health policies..
People who choose not to vaccinate DO put others at risk.
They can absolutely make their own choices, however thankfully many jurisdictions are getting more engaged in ensuring a non-vaccinated person is not able to make other people sick. Those people include individuals too young to vaccinate, those with compromised immune systems, and those for whom the vaccine is not 100% effective. For those people an unvaccinated person creates risk.
I don't understand, why the above statement drives people so crazy that vaccinate. You can sit there and say fact this, fact that, but the FACT is, everyone should be able to make their own choices. There are consequences to most things, just because someone doesn't vaccinate doesn't mean their child is going to catch something, just because someone does vaccinate doesn't mean your child is protected. We need to stop putting people down for the choices that they make IN THEIR OWN LIVES, the hate towards people who don't vaccinate just astounds me. It must be so exhausting.
The statement you are referring to drives people "so crazy" because it is based on a faulty presumption; that is, that an immune system pumped up by good nutrition and a "healthy lifestyle" will in and of itself prevent disease. This is demonstrably untrue. In the case of measles, 90% of non-immune people will get the disease when exposed, regardless of the state of their immune system.
While the bold is true, it's not a 50/50 situation. The unimmunized are far more likely to get sick when exposed, and the immunized are far less likely.
I don't think any pro-vaxer on this thread hates anyone else. This is a public health issue. It's not a case of "is red a prettier color than blue".
I wonder how many parents opposed to vaccination happily forward-face their child's car seat at one year old. Inconsistencies like this abound within this group.
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