Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I keep seeing people mention that there are other, more terrible things going on in the world that deserve our outrage, and that this should somehow minimize Cecil's killing. I disagree with this premise. Outrage doesn't have to be exclusive. One can be angry at the situation in Iraq or Syria, for example, and still be angry at the unlawful death of a protected lion.
I hate terrorists, but I hate poachers too.
I can hate both and so can you.
That is what is called a "false equivalency".
I can hate both situations - and many others. One does not nullify the other. Right now, we are speaking about the lion, not starving children or police brutality - for example.
And, I refuse to get involved into a "what's worse?" competition.
This is a mess all the way around, for the regular people of Zimbabwe, the Lion who got wacked and Palmer and his family as they have lost pretty much everything before a trial with no recourse to get it back should things turn out to be that he was less than completely responsible all by himself.
But that is where the mess will stop as those likely as complicit as Palmer and perhaps more so will evade and escape any real scrutiny because after all, it isn't like there is a hoard of twits twatting on twitter or a mob marveling over monsters in Zimbabwe (which is what rules over there).
In the haste to persecute instead of investigate, the mob has destroyed Palmer, broken the livelihood of his employees and for what? A chance to join in a cause that wasn't even on the radar a couple weeks ago and will disappear in a couple more?
Palmer was a fool but the tolerance for fools is legend yet no one really does to them what happened here. If you go back to read the thread, right here on CD there were people calling for his death although as the cowards they are, carefully crafted their words to avoid prosecution. Yes, there were cowards of the highest order.
Maybe it is time to do more than examine this lion killing because there were a group of people right here intent on doing far worse. That is was tolerated was amazing. No doubt, the page views were something to behold and no way was that little treasure trove of attention going to be passed up.
Lest there be any doubt that what went on here had nothing to do with civility or lack thereof, it was blatant mob reaction and if nothing else, it can now happen to anyone for any reason including you walking in the park on a Sunday.
I can hate both situations - and many others. One does not nullify the other. Right now, we are speaking about the lion, not starving children or police brutality - for example.
And, I refuse to get involved into a "what's worse?" competition.
Hating when you don't know what you're hating is foolish. You don't know.
Why should he report it thou? There was nothing illegal about it.
Whether Palmer knew the lion was protected before he killed it may be in doubt, but he was violating the rules/law by shooting it with a crossbow, which I understand is illegal in that country. Perhaps that's why he didn't want to report it.
Whether Palmer knew the lion was protected before he killed it may be in doubt, but he was violating the rules/law by shooting it with a crossbow, which I understand is illegal in that country. Perhaps that's why he didn't want to report it.
And I have understood it to be that it wasn't illegal to shoot it with a crossbow.
The rules do not prohibit using a cross bow. One reason this is a issue is because some official in Zimbabwe made the statement that hunters use cross bows to avoid being caught poaching. While that may be true, is was said in the context of implying that Palmer chose to use a cross bow to poach.
FIREARMS AND BOW REGULATIONS
Your Operator will advise what rifles are appropriate for the hunt booked. A.375 or bigger and a medium caliber 7mm - 300 HxH range are suggested as generally suitable for most hunts.
Hunting rifles may be temporarily imported into Zimbabwe and forms will either be sent to you by the Operator or may be completed upon arrival at Zimbabwe Customs. Bring your own ammunition with you to ensure you have the type you prefer. Ensure you complete the Firearms Temporary Import Permit accurately.
A bow with a draw weight of not less than 35kg and an arrow weighing not less than 45 grams is required for Giraffe and Eland and draw weight of not less than 35kg with an arrow not less than 40 grams is required for most antelope.Bow hunting may onlly take place on private hunting areas or communal hunting areas, NOT in a Nation Park or Government controled Safari Area.
A caliber of no less than 9.2mm in diameter with muzzle energy of 5.3 kilojoules is required for Elephant, Buffalo and Hippo.
A caliber of no less than 7mm in diameter with a muzzle energy of no less than 4.3 kilojoules is required for Lion, Giraffe and Eland.
A caliber of no less than 7mm in diameter with a muzzle energy of no less than 3 kilojoules is required for Crocodile, Hyena, Kudu, Leopard, Nyala, Sable, Waterbuck, Wildebeest, Zebra etc.
A caliber of no less than 5.6mm in diameter with muzzle energy of no less than 850 joules is required for Bushbuck, Bushpig, Impala, Reedbuck
What the Unites States says about "Sport Hunting", just in case there is a question:
"Sport hunting, as part of a sound wildlife management program, can provide benefits to conservation. However, given the situation in Tanzania in 2014 and 2015, and given the information available to the Service regarding elephants in Zimbabwe, the agency is not assured that the benefits of sport hunting will be realized in those countries."
Source: FWS.GOV
Wonder what that "information available" is? Well, here it is, direct from the US Government:
"Zimbabwe: When the Service announced the interim suspension on the import of elephant trophies from Zimbabwe on April 4, 2014, we based the decision on the limited information available to us at the time. Since the time of that announcement, the Government of Zimbabwe, non-government organizations, safari outfitters, professional hunter associations, and individuals provided the Service with additional information regarding the management and status of Zimbabwe’s elephant population. Based on review 1
of all available information, the Service is unable to find that the killing of an elephant whose trophy is intended for import would enhance the survival of the species for the following reasons:
• Unclear progress toward goals and objectives of elephant management plans: Zimbabwe’s elephant management plan, which consists primarily of two outdated documents (1996 and 1997), provides a well-developed list of goals and objectives but lacks information on the implementation of those plans and the progress made toward meeting the stated goals and objectives.
• Inadequate information to confirm population status: The Pan African Elephant Aerial Survey has been conducted in Zimbabwe, and preliminary findings have been announced. This is a significant, positive step forward toward Zimbabwe having adequate information to establish scientifically defensible hunting quotas, particularly in light of the limited information on other means of off-take, such as poaching and problem animal control. If this information is incorporated into management activities in a scientifically sound manner, the Service may have a better basis to re-evaluate our finding with regard to importation of elephant trophies in the future.
• Implementation and enforcement of existing laws and regulations: Although Zimbabwe has laws and corresponding regulations in place to address elephant management, there appears to be an inability to implement and enforce these laws, possibly due to lack of funding or inadequate governance.
• Questionable hunting quotas: The Service did not receive information on how hunting quotas are established and whether other forms of offtake, such as poaching and problem animal control, were taken into account.
• Use of revenue generated from sport hunting: The Service does not have current information on how funds generated from elephant sport-hunting are utilized and cannot confirm whether revenue generated through sport hunting actually provides an incentive to local communities to conserve elephants.
• Lack of government support: A number of non-governmental entities, including individual land owners or lease-holders, safari outfitters and conservancies, are doing outstanding conservation work in Zimbabwe. However, without more support from the Government of Zimbabwe and Rural District Councils, these efforts are not likely to be fully successful, and they do not overcome the problems currently facing Zimbabwe’s elephant populations. "
Now I ask, what makes anyone think they deal with lions any different than elephants?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.