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Say you did just that and lets be honest, it has probably happened, or something similar to it. Would it make sense to condem all people designing power circuits or those who made the mistake? We both know what is going on here. Now add this, if you hired less than competent designers, who would bear the responsibility, the designer or the fools making the hiring selections? Before you answer, there is already precedence that answers the question but how do you see it?
Oh I definitely agree with you here.
I do not blame all police nor condemn them. The ones I've dealt with locally have all been very professional, and even friendly in cases when they shouldn't have been.
As for your question, I believe the responsibility falls on both, the designer and the fools hiring them.
What a terrifying story! I too would have been standing in front of my babies terrified one of them would go to sniff the cop and get shot for the sudden move.
I don't know if it's because the police hire more ex-military now, or too much nepotism, but police are not the way I remember them. The handful of times I walked to the police station in my town to ask a question about something (parking near my home, etc) I got very snotty, snarky responses. They don't seem to feel they are really part of the community anymore, but are separate from it, and we're all just PITA's in their way.
And Oh gee, golly whiz, I wonder how the police's attitude could be transforming to what you describe. They're not part of the community anymore. With the collection of nutcases out there armed with attitude and a cell phone camera with matching weapon just looking for their 15 seconds of fame, if I were an officer every one of my actions would be on the defensive.
My husband's friend works for this police force and he's told me on many occassions that several of the cops he's worked with have no business doing police work. He's had to admonish another officer for overhyping a situation and pulling his gun on someone when it wasn't called for. You can't have a person with a 'scary' personality being a cop but unfortunately there are cops like this. As soon as someone says 'boo' to them they are drawing their gun and shooting.
You can't explain this tragedy away with some friendly fire or collateral damage logic nonsense. These type of situations happen far to often and police are nearly always exonerated. There is no due process if you are victimized by the police. This is clearly a system that needs to be fixed.
Agree with this. When it happens to someone else it's just a sad news story. When it happens to you it is life changing. It can leave you with psychological scars, disabilities, job loss, death. I mean look at this most recent case. The guy was shot in the leg. If he works or goes to school this will be disruptive to his life as he recovers. What if he loses his job? Statistics don't matter when you are the one that was harmed.
On my street there are about twelve houses. Two of those have cops there from time to time. One, more than the other. I'm always thinking, what if they come to the wrong house. Oh, and it's usually at 1:00am, 2:00am etc when we're sleeping and are woken up from the sirens what we've done is make sure our house number is visible on the door and mailbox. It's amazing how many houses I see where the number isn't visible.
And Oh gee, golly whiz, I wonder how the police's attitude could be transforming to what you describe. They're not part of the community anymore. With the collection of nutcases out there armed with attitude and a cell phone camera with matching weapon just looking for their 15 seconds of fame, if I were an officer every one of my actions would be on the defensive.
Yes, many officers are in dangerous places and I can see that attitude. The cops in my town however don't deal with anything more serious than break-ins and shoplifting. We don't even have booze in our town so there is not even that to deal with. And we keep the same number of full-time cops all year round, so a number sufficient to police 150,000 in summer only has to police 12,000 the other 9 months.
I'm the customer, that's what they don't get. I don't deserve to be spoken to like that especially when they are supposed to be MY servers and protectors.
Yes, many officers are in dangerous places and I can see that attitude. The cops in my town however don't deal with anything more serious than break-ins and shoplifting. We don't even have booze in our town so there is not even that to deal with. And we keep the same number of full-time cops all year round, so a number sufficient to police 150,000 in summer only has to police 12,000 the other 9 months.
I'm the customer, that's what they don't get. I don't deserve to be spoken to like that especially when they are supposed to be MY servers and protectors.
And you are supposed to be their supporter and advocate and do more than complain after things go wrong, you're supposed go be there before, doing more than giviing lip service on some forum and actually doing. When was the last time you got involved in the selection process of new police? Almost all departments have community member invvement, do you contribute or just complain? Have you taken any interest in making sure their objectives support the goals of the community or do you always leave that to someone else?
A warrant shouldn't be granted in such a case (I doubt they had one). Probable cause for any given homeowner hasn't been established. If the police want to pursue unspecific and vague leads further, they should send an investigator and gather evidence first. The highest law in the land says the can't perform unreasonable searches. Respecting it comes first, finding bad guys (as important as it is) is secondary.
There have been having alot of breakins in that area lately, and some one I know on that street had their car broken into twice in 2 weeks to steal the tools out of their work van, so im probably sure it was the same person the cops were responding to and had more urgency to get there than double verify if they have the right house from a vague 911 call. Problem is , they guessed and guessed wrong.
This is what happens when people make vague reports and vague phone calls to the police without providing a lot of information. A house address number would surely have helped, and prevented all this. This is all one big mistake.
Before 911 was fully implemented and something called "Enhanced 911" was around {which should apply to cell phones too-giving exact locations} I experienced a house fire. In the middle of the night. Home alone {my room mate gone}. I had to get out my bedroom window...in a pair of undies and socks and my winter coat which was on the chair under the window I crawled out of {that was IT and it was in the middle of February in New England} suffering serious smoke inhalation.
I could not get the neighbors awake or they weren't home for the winter season so I stumbled two blocks to a convenience store pay phone {remember those?} to call the Operator, a "free call" on the payphone {fortunately}. I told her is breathy tones as it was hard to breathe, that there was a house fire. She asked where I was... I told her the address of the house, she said "that's fine But I need to know where YOU are NOW" I told here where i was, but was blacking out, fading in and out of coherancy. She finally got the police and fire on the way, and the co who found me got me an ambulance to take me to the hospital. The operators ALSO are usually NOT near the area in which they "administer" to. She was unfamiliar with the area, but was able to effectively communicate to the police the locations so they could find me...
Where I live now, even with enhanced 911, the road is private with lot #s assigned to us, so the 911 shows a mailbox # at the end of the road not the location of the house, which we have to provide that to 911.
POINTS BEING:, As mentioned, BE AS SPECIFIC AS POSSIBLE. IF I was NOT coherent enough, she would NOT have known where the fire was or where I was. EVEN with enhanced 911, one is best to give a good descriptions of locations involved JUST IN CASE. If using a cell phone, GIVE address for clarity of emergency! OR give the BEST descriptors you can, so they can find you!
AND of course, follow the police's orders to the letter, it may save your life, they don't know what situation they will encounter, so OBEY them!
And you are supposed to be their supporter and advocate and do more than complain after things go wrong, you're supposed go be there before, doing more than giviing lip service on some forum and actually doing. When was the last time you got involved in the selection process of new police? Almost all departments have community member invvement, do you contribute or just complain? Have you taken any interest in making sure their objectives support the goals of the community or do you always leave that to someone else?
I have never heard of any community member helping choose police. I don't think it is individuals as a whole anyway, I think it's a culture now in police departments. I do get involved in local issues, but not selecting police officers, no. I don't select the postal workers either, but they still manage to be nice to me and treat me the way a community servant is supposed to,
[quote=Petite Jean;41052223]That's true. They are supposed to be professional. Think professional, act professional. I just don't know, sure people make mistakes but we hold police to a higher standard.
Why are police supposed to be held at a higher standard then any other professional? The biggest idiot factor I've ever seen has been in healthcare. Yet there are no riots to protest the thousands upon thousands of people killed by medical mistakes every year. Lets keep the sensational headlines, biased reporting, and race baiting out of it. Cops make mistakes but there are far less mistakes then in the medical field. I've personally seen 5 people slaughtered by medical mistakes during my career and that's just what I know of personally. Don't get me started on the paramedics who have killed people in the field with improper intubations. I've seen dozens of those. Yet when a police officer makes a mistake they are crucified by the public because of the media reporting only one side of the story. The haters jump on it like white on rice and spread their hate like cancer. I admit that this story makes me say yikes, but that's because of the way the media reports it. I want to hear the other side of the story. I have many questions as well. Was there a struggle with a startled home owner for one. It's a horrible story any way you look at it, but lets keep it in perspective and not use it to fuel the hatred towards the uniform. Believe it or not there are real people attached to it that are out there trying to do a difficult job. They don't need to be worried about the whack job haters out there being whipped into a frenzy by the media and other agenda haters to go out there and shoot innocent good people in the back of the head while they are fueling their cars. Maybe the media should start reporting on the local good cops that do good things every week to keep things in a better perspective. I don't know how this whole hater movement started but I wish it would end. There's enough hate in this world without adding to it and putting innocent people in danger.
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what we've done is make sure our house number is visible on the door and mailbox. It's amazing how many houses I see where the number isn't visible.
Why are police supposed to be held at a higher standard then any other professional? The biggest idiot factor I've ever seen has been in healthcare. Yet there are no riots to protest the thousands upon thousands of people killed by medical mistakes every year. Lets keep the sensational headlines, biased reporting, and race baiting out of it. Cops make mistakes but there are far less mistakes then in the medical field. I've personally seen 5 people slaughtered by medical mistakes during my career and that's just what I know of personally. Don't get me started on the paramedics who have killed people in the field with improper intubations. I've seen dozens of those. Yet when a police officer makes a mistake they are crucified by the public because of the media reporting only one side of the story. The haters jump on it like white on rice and spread their hate like cancer. I admit that this story makes me say yikes, but that's because of the way the media reports it. I want to hear the other side of the story. I have many questions as well. Was there a struggle with a startled home owner for one. It's a horrible story any way you look at it, but lets keep it in perspective and not use it to fuel the hatred towards the uniform. Believe it or not there are real people attached to it that are out there trying to do a difficult job. They don't need to be worried about the whack job haters out there being whipped into a frenzy by the media and other agenda haters to go out there and shoot innocent good people in the back of the head while they are fueling their cars. Maybe the media should start reporting on the local good cops that do good things every week to keep things in a better perspective. I don't know how this whole hater movement started but I wish it would end. There's enough hate in this world without adding to it and putting innocent people in danger.
