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Why would anyone drop a baby in a dumpster when all hospitals will accept a newborn without question and without requiring identification of the person leaving the baby there?
That points to complete irresponsibility of the women who gave birth. It takes about 9 months to bring a baby to term and deliver yet we are to believe that women drop babies in dumpsters out of haste?
Wherever you stand on abortion, perhaps being in favor of responsibility of their body, which women demand, and rightfully so, should be #1 on the list because it is preventative of the problem pregnancy, not a contributor to it. An abortion is a medical intervention because the woman was either raped or as is the usual case, they are ignorant or stupid and irresponsible or both stupid and irresponsible. Lets call it what it is, abortion is just a way to avoid doing what should have been done before.
Oh my, another forum poster who is perfect, responsible and successful; has never made a mistake in his life and always exercises perfect judgment..
I'm sure you aren't the least bit interested but in the 60's you could not just drop off a baby at a hospital, if you tried to do so the Police would have been called. In 1965 The Supreme Court (in Griswold v. Connecticut) gave married couples the right to use birth control, ruling that it was protected in the Constitution as a right to privacy. However, millions of unmarried women in 26 states were still denied birth control. Until my Senior year of high school when they changed the rules, a girl who 'showed' had to quit school. Some girls married the baby daddy who was usually 16 or 17 years old himself, that didn't usually work well. Others dropped out of school and went to a home for unwed mothers where they stayed until they had their baby, many were not allowed to see or touch their infant, they were simply given adoption papers to sign and the baby would be carried off to be given to it's adoptive parents.
Girls who wanted to stay in school had abortions or hid the pregnancy. Of course even though abortions were illegal with the right connections and enough money you could get a safe one pretty easily. It didn't go very well for poor girls though, usually they would try home remedies or get an abortion from someone with no medical credentials.
So unlike you, in your perfect world, some people make bad choices when they are young, the difference between you and me is that I don't think that a kid should pay for their mistake or the rest of their life.
I was in High School in the 60's, the most popular methods of abortion were having the baby daddy kick or punch the girl in the stomach, drink an entire bottle of castor oil, or find some retired drunk nurse or doc to do the deed. Of course girls with money took a few days off school and had a 'procedure' that no one called an abortion but somehow the girl returned to school magically un-pregnant. My best friend had an abortion when she was 17 by a doctor who had lost his license, it was so botched that she had to have most of her female organs removed a few years later.
Of course the rich were mostly fine but as you mention, not all were and would face some of the consequences your friend, perhaps worse.
Apparently you can't discern the difference between what mortality rates means and what rates of injury are.
Here is a clue, mortality means death so mortality rates means death rates, something not part of the discussion.
Injury rates are the rate at which injuries occur in a given ratio.
Now go back and read the links because they were cited because you said abortions do not cause women not to be able to get pregnant when the facts are clear, many injuries that happen during abortions can in fact, prevent a woman from bearing children.
So, you are trying to change the subject being discussed and when shown the facts, just couldn't handle the reality.
In case you can't be bothered to actually read the links:
This is what you missed, obviously, whether on purpose or some other reason:
"Future childbearing: Early abortions that are not complicated by infection do not cause infertility or make it more difficult to carry a later pregnancy to term. Complications associated with an abortion or having many abortions may make it difficult to have children."
and from other links: (women are women unless you also maintain the view that women in the UK are different that women in the USA from a physical standpoint
"In the UK, most women who have an abortion don’t have any complications and their fertility isn’t affected.
However, a small number of women (see below) have complications, such as:
a severe infection, such as pelvic inflammatory disease (PID)
damage to the womb (uterus) Complications such as these can affect fertility. Also, repeated abortions can cause damage to your cervix and increase the risk of late miscarriages."
Now, you said abortions do not cause problems with future pregnancies. Apparently you don't know what you're talking about. They can and do. Does it prevent all or most future pregnancies? No, but that wasn't the premise of the post, the premise was that it can.
If you die, something went badly wrong. If you are dead - and perhaps your baby died, too - future pregnancy becomes a non-issue.
The same complications can occur due to spontaneous miscarriages (also called spontaneous abortions) as can happen with pregnancy termination. The bottom line is that having an abortion is safer than having a delivery.
Some states are easing access to oral contraceptives. While that is a good idea, I am a little ambivalent. I do not know whether a questionnaire administered by a pharmacist will weed out those who should not use the pill.
Now, you said abortions do not cause problems with future pregnancies. Apparently you don't know what you're talking about. They can and do. Does it prevent all or most future pregnancies? No, but that wasn't the premise of the post, the premise was that it can.
Here's the simple answer, if you don't want an abortion- don't have one, problem solved! But don't cite one source and ignore a number of others that refute what your sole source claimed.
No but harsh rhetoric is the problem. Not all the #BLM say pigs in blankets, fry 'em like bacon correct? Now are all of those opposed to abortion saying the doctors need to die, no. Some do and the LCD members (those you say wear tinfoil hats) of the movements are swayed to this rhetoric and actually take this action.
I don't blame the rhetoric, I blame the perpetrator. Violent people lack self responsibility, they have no self control. If there were no police shootings and no abortions, something else would set them off.
Apparently you can't discern the difference between what mortality rates means and what rates of injury are.
Here is a clue, mortality means death so mortality rates means death rates, something not part of the discussion.
Injury rates are the rate at which injuries occur in a given ratio.
Now go back and read the links because they were cited because you said abortions do not cause women not to be able to get pregnant when the facts are clear, many injuries that happen during abortions can in fact, prevent a woman from bearing children.
So, you are trying to change the subject being discussed and when shown the facts, just couldn't handle the reality.
In case you can't be bothered to actually read the links:
This is what you missed, obviously, whether on purpose or some other reason:
"Future childbearing: Early abortions that are not complicated by infection do not cause infertility or make it more difficult to carry a later pregnancy to term. Complications associated with an abortion or having many abortions may make it difficult to have children."
and from other links: (women are women unless you also maintain the view that women in the UK are different that women in the USA from a physical standpoint
"In the UK, most women who have an abortion don’t have any complications and their fertility isn’t affected.
However, a small number of women (see below) have complications, such as:
a severe infection, such as pelvic inflammatory disease (PID)
damage to the womb (uterus) Complications such as these can affect fertility. Also, repeated abortions can cause damage to your cervix and increase the risk of late miscarriages."
Now, you said abortions do not cause problems with future pregnancies. Apparently you don't know what you're talking about. They can and do. Does it prevent all or most future pregnancies? No, but that wasn't the premise of the post, the premise was that it can.
Are you just randomly googling in a desperate attempt to support your assertion? Let's go down the Louisiana list, shall we?
Pelvic infection: Infection and its bigger, badder cousin, sepsis, are risks after any type of surgery and also childbirth. A very dangerous inflammatory response to infection, sepsis can occur after vaginal delivery, Caesarean section, miscarriage, surgical abortion (D&C/D&E), or medical abortion (induction). It can also result from an untreated vaginal infection in a woman who's not even pregnant.
PID: Pelvic inflammatory disease is most often the result of untreated sexually transmitted infection, specifically chlamydia and gonorrhea. PID is the most common cause of female infertility. It is is also a risk of IUD use and other intrauterine procedures. The fact is that any pelvic infection left untreated can lead to PID and those infections can come from a lot of different sources.
Damage to the womb: Conditions associated with pregnancy and delivery in general can lead to this situation, whether or not the woman has had an abortion. Uterine surgery, including prior Caesarean section, puts a woman at risk risk for placenta accreta, which prevents complete expulsion of the afterbirth and is treated with hysterectomy. Surgical intervention is also necessary for the treatment of pregnancy complications called placenta previa and placental abruption. There is also a gruesome complication called uterine inversion (also widely known in obstetrical circles as a "jerk" on the end of the cord), which I will leave to your imagination. Any time a health care professional is rooting around in the body, tissue damage is a possibility.
Hemorrhage: A risk of any surgical procedure and also normal childbirth. A very serious condition when following delivery, it can easily lead to death without prompt treatment.
Blood clots: A general risk of surgery and a number of other conditions. Disseminated Intravascular Coagulopathy (DIC) is an almost always fatal activation of the clotting cascade that can occur after normal childbirth and any surgery. Also a complication of cancer. Very, very rare.
Perforation of the uterine wall: Yes, this can happen in D&C, which is a type of surgical abortion, along with any number of other intrauterine procedures, including placement of an IUD and uterine ablation, a treatment for endometriosis. It can occur during abdominal surgery and even as a result of abdominal injury.
Anesthesia-related complications: A risk of any surgery or condition requiring sedation. Also dental procedures. Just sayin'.
Cut or torn cervix: A torn cervix can also result from pushing before fully dilated in a normal vaginal childbirth.
Immunoglobulin therapy: This one is just weird, and it's an example of how something can be twisted to suit a political agenda. Rh incompatibility is a serious complication for the fetus in subsequent pregnancies of Rh-negative women who have had a previous pregnancies, including those ended by abortion or miscarriage. Before the advent of immunoglobulin therapy, it was the reason for blood tests at marriage licensing. Immunoglobulin therapy is not a complication of abortion; it's a treatment for a complication of pregnancy.
Next?
Last edited by randomparent; 12-02-2015 at 06:35 AM..
Congratulations to anyone who got through my above post. It was early, and I was in full-on brain dump. Consequently, my editing sucked!
As I was driving home from an appointment this morning, I came up with some other scenarios for cervical trauma. Damage can happen any time instruments or even fingers (as during a dilation check during the first stage of labor) are introduced into the vagina. It can be the result of a forceps delivery, use of instruments to deal with prolapsed cord, shoulder dystocia, breech presentation, fetal macrocephaly, or even improper use of a speculum during a Pap smear, in addition to the early pushing I mentioned in my previous post. And don't even get me started on the wacky ways sexual experimentation leads to harm. Please, use some common sense, folks!
As for you, Mack, understand that you have brought a knife to a gun fight. I will run circles around you on this topic, so please stop pretending that you know much of anything at all other than how to use a search engine.
Last edited by randomparent; 12-02-2015 at 09:04 AM..
I'm not sure how the recent pages of discussion relate to the title of this thread.
Having said that, I will say that PP does provide an extremely valuable service. By providing contraceptives to Liberals, it prevents them from procreating. And for every Liberal pregnancy that's prevented, that's one less fetus (aka baby) killed. At least that's something, I guess.
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