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This, from the article, is a much better way to teach kids about winter holidays.
Of course Santa isn't as religious as a nativity scene, but people who are saying he's not associated with Christmas specifically are being ridiculously obtuse. Of course he is. He's Father Christmas... he's in all the holiday movies etc. He may be a secular tradition for Christmas and has been adopted by everyone else because they want to give their kids some magic and traditions, but he's still associated with it.
My view?
1 - It's a stupid field trip for a public school to make.
2 - Parents who don't want their kids involved can keep their kids home.
Exactly. Which is why I refuse to even engage the argument, it's so stupid. LOL. He's a secular symbol of a religious holiday. Period. People who are not very religious may celebrate Christmas anyway for the fun of it, but that doesn't make it a secular holiday. It makes it a religious holiday that secular folks feel comfortable co-opting sometimes.
In any case...
If a school wants to open up that particular can of worms by taking kids to see Santa, then they have to do it right. Make sure you are doing in in the context of exploring multiple holiday traditions, and offer clearly defined ways to opt-out, so that no one can say their children feel forced to celebrate Christmas or that Christmas is being elevated as THE holiday by the school. The woman who complained referenced her kid "spending 5 days on one holiday" which means that wasn't the first Christmas thing they had done. What the parents ended up doing on their own sounded right... hosting something where kids learn about multiple holiday traditions.
I like the idea posted here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lived here forever
When my kids were in kindergarten, (years ago), it was "to see the decorations, and maybe a side trip to see Santa". If you didn't want your child to go, you just kept them home that day. (snip)
And as far as it being educational, it is. We took public transportation and each kid put in his own bus token. Public buildings, like city hall, were pointed out, and explained what went on in there. Some of the kids had never ridden a bus, or had been downtown, even tho we were an inner city school not far from downtown. It was a real learning experience for them.
Going downtown and looking at the multiple holiday displays, then (optional) visiting Santa AND a Hanukkah display or something like that makes sense. That's the way you do a Santa trip in a public school setting IMO. Simply cover your arse like a good administrator. LOL
Fine teach you kids all that stuff yourself. Not everything is the responsibility of the school. Schools have enough to do without taking days off to do things parents should be doing themselves.
I didn't say it was or was not the responsibility of the school. I just think this is an incredibly stupid hill to die on in the name of separation of church and state. Its annoying when there are ACTUAL issues we can be fighting that are eroding the line between the two.
Nor does it promote the arts or fitness. It is literally the least educational field trip I have ever heard of.
So what? Those skills could be taught by parents, not the school. Where do you draw the line? Oh boy we better not the little dears talk about their favorite movies and tv shows. That's a waste of time! And we might offend someone! OMG and we might learn we have different ideas and preferences. OH NO. Can't have that!
I really wouldn't give a **** if my kids were taken on a field trip to a house of worship. Many of them are architectural wonders steeped in history and I think its a good thing to learn about other people's religions and cultures.
Part of the school curriculum or a field trip?
My kids go to the Farmers Market in the spring with their school. Its not part of the school currciulum. Its a fun day out with their friends. THE HORROR!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25
Why does it have to be tied to religion?
Parents can teach their children many things that schools do, most everything really.
Besides the fact that a trip to see Santa does not a religious education make.
The point is that they weren't being taken to multiple houses of worship, it was just a trip to see Santa.
And I'll explain again that Santa is part of celebrating CHRISTmas, a CHRISTIAN religion. My non-Christian family does not celebrate Christmas. My child should not be expected to choose between observing a Christmas-related tradition that is not part of the religion we practice, or missing out on a school sponsored, taxpayer funded field trip.
And no, balancing a checkbook, cooking, etc. should not be linked to a religion. That's why it's not a problem to teach practical life skills like that in school. Promoting a Christian holiday tradition isn't remotely the same thing.
If you are Christian, or come from a Christian background even if you don't practice the religion yourself, you will never understand why it's a problem for someone who actively practices another religion to have Santa promoted in school like this. It's not educational, I don't object to my child being taught about Christianity and it's place in Western culture and society and history. He needs to know that. But he doesn't need to be forced to write letters to or take a field trip to visit Santa or told his option is to be excluded from school on that day because of the fact that he's not Christian.
No, it's not inappropriate for kids, but it's inappropriate for tax dollars to be spent on it.
You make it sound like these children go to school for free. Their parents pay taxes. Time for school systems to realize who is in charge and that should be the parents of the children. Don't want your child to see Santa, don't send them. Let them remain in the classroom. Christmas is a historical fact that changed the calendar from B. C. to A. D.
Political correctness takes all the fun out of life.
You make it sound like these children go to school for free. Their parents pay taxes. Time for school systems to realize who is in charge and that should be the parents of the children. Don't want your child to see Santa, don't send them. Let them remain in the classroom. Christmas is a historical fact that changed the calendar from B. C. to A. D.
Political correctness takes all the fun out of life.
My tax dollars get paid too. Why should MY money pay for YOUR fun? Public schools do not need to sponsor trips to visit Santa, period. If that's the experience someone wants for their child, they should have them in religious school.
You make it sound like these children go to school for free. Their parents pay taxes. Time for school systems to realize who is in charge and that should be the parents of the children. Don't want your child to see Santa, don't send them. Let them remain in the classroom. Christmas is a historical fact that changed the calendar from B. C. to A. D.
The parents who don't celebrate Christmas pay taxes too.
And the standard isn't that Christmas can't be celebrated and talked about, so in that sense there is no War On Christmas. All that is required is that it is approached in an educational context (as in the students have to LEARN something) and that it is not treated as the only or most important of all the holidays. That means:
1. If you want to sing Christmas songs at the winter concert, make sure songs from other traditions as well as secular songs are included too.
2. If you want to have a Christmas themed art project, also throw in some art projects from other traditions.
3. If you want to go on a field trip related to Christmas, have a way to show students other traditions too.
Notice a pattern? Include other people, and don't let Christmas be dominate to the point you are subtly communicating the other things "don't really matter".
It's not hard, it seems pretty fair and reasonable IMO, yet anytime a school pulls away from being 100% (or even 80-90%) Christmas-centric people have a cow. It always comes across like whining to me.
When my kids were in kindergarten, (years ago), it was "to see the decorations, and maybe a side trip to see Santa". If you didn't want your child to go, you just kept them home that day ...
And as far as it being educational, it is. We took public transportation and each kid put in his own bus token. Public buildings, like city hall, were pointed out, and explained what went on in there. Some of the kids had never ridden a bus, or had been downtown, even tho we were an inner city school not far from downtown. It was a real learning experience for them.
I agree that riding the bus and traveling to town might indeed be educational for MANY children. It just shouldn't include a Christian holiday traditions, especially as you aptly demonstrated, not all children in the school are from Christian families. I could easily think of a dozen other reasons to take small children on expeditions to their city center that would be far more educational than something as passive as looking at pretty decorations.
I can't believe people are saying that Santa isn't part of Christmas! Santa may not be religious but it's still part of celebrating CHRISTmas, a CHRISTIAN holiday. It's one thing to have a winter concert that includes songs honoring multiple cultures reflective of a school community. But a school-sponsored field trip to see Santa is ridiculous. I'm so glad I live in a large enough, multi-cultural enough city that this kind of BS never happens, and I don't have to be attacked for being the Jewish mother who would make a protest if it did.
Absolutely!!
There is NO tradition of a Santa Claus-like figure in Judaism or Buddhism or Islam...
He is solely associated with Christianity.
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