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to the above posters,
You are all very highly rated and respected posters. As such, what you post is taken as fact by most locals and out of towners. If i have been wrong in reading the data on schools, then i would be glad to debate it further. If you agree as the data seems to confirm that cedar hill/desoto/duncanville is just as good as the northern burbs schools and midlothian and mansfield isds, then i respectfuly beg you to stop stating otherwise
there might be other reasons for not moving to cedar hill as opposed to Frisco, but as the facts prove, schools is not one of them
Most school districts are rated Academically Acceptable due to high drop out rates of poor minority kids. The districts that are rated Exemplary have very few, if any, poor minority students.
I hate to look at schools just based on their ratings, but here goes:
District and the number of schools in each rating category, first northern districts:
More interesting to me though is what my friends who live south tell me about the schools and it's not good and it's rare for parents to complain about their own children's schools. But they live south for other reasons - cheaper, more space, more land, family lives in the area, or they specifically do not want to live in the northern parts due to traffic and materialism and they are very happy living south. But if the issue with the schools is truly just perception, then that can be fixed with a good PR campaign. Keep posting. When relocators ask their questions, post the positives about your neck of the woods. We have so few posters from the south half of the area, so I am glad you are here representing the area.
Most school districts are rated Academically Acceptable due to high drop out rates of poor minority kids. The districts that are rated Exemplary have very few, if any, poor minority students.
I hate to look at schools just based on their ratings, but here goes:
District and the number of schools in each rating category, first northern districts:
More interesting to me though is what my friends who live south tell me about the schools and it's not good and it's rare for parents to complain about their own children's schools. But they live south for other reasons - cheaper, more space, more land, family lives in the area, or they specifically do not want to live in the northern parts due to traffic and materialism and they are very happy living south. But if the issue with the schools is truly just perception, then that can be fixed with a good PR campaign. Keep posting. When relocators ask their questions, post the positives about your neck of the woods. We have so few posters from the south half of the area, so I am glad you are here representing the area.
FarNoth I live in Frisco. You are twisting the data.
Fact Cedar hill has a smaller population and less schools than Frisco.
When you list the data with the aggregate # of exemplary schools etc that can be misleading.
When you compare on a gradeschool level basis
Cedar Hill HS- Academically acceptable
ALL of Frisco HS - Academically Acceptable
Frisco and Cedar Hill don't get exemplary scores until you get to middle and elementary schools.
So plain and simple Frisco and Cedar Hill both have work to do in regards to the next grades up beyond middle school.
If you are calling Cedar Hill average, you are also calling Frisco average.
Based on the stats they are on par- Frisco may edge CH by a little but not by much as far as education.
At this point its ALL P.R.
You are great when you are exemplary at all levels not just elementary. Speaking as a Frisco tax payer I want exemplary.
But to be fair please stop using the data to create this idea that the southern burbs specifically CH education is below Frisco.
its easy to have more E and R schools when you have triple the population and triple the schools. Thats the way the math will work.
again, i said that cedar hill schools are just as good as most nothern burb isds that i mentioned. the data supports my claim. the ISDs are all rate acceptable because their perfomance is similar i.e there is no statistical significance and therefore no difference. You post the following comment:
"More interesting to me though is what my friends who live south tell me about the schools and it's not good and it's rare for parents to complain about their own children's schools. But they live south for other reasons - cheaper, more space, more land, family lives in the area, or they specifically do not want to live in the northern parts"
Again, your friends comments are more than likely based on perception (which i am trying to change). there are just as many people who will tell you that they love the schools over here. My daughters school is rated "recognized" for all the almost 10 years that i lived here.
You will also agree if you look at the posts on this board that most believe that mansfield and midlothian schools are better than cedar/desot/duncan schools. They advise people that they are better off moving to these cities. the data just does NOT support this.
You and your cohort of highly rated posters offer great advise to people here. I hope you all will join me in dispeling this myth/misconception
FarNoth I live in Frisco. You are twisting the data.
Fact Cedar hill has a smaller population and less schools than Frisco.
When you list the data with the aggregate # of exemplary schools etc that can be misleading.
When you compare on a gradeschool level basis
Cedar Hill HS- Academically acceptable
ALL of Frisco HS - Academically Acceptable
Frisco and Cedar Hill don't get exemplary scores until you get to middle and elementary schools.
So plain and simple Frisco and Cedar Hill both have work to do in regards to the next grades up beyond middle school.
If you are calling Cedar Hill average, you are also calling Frisco average.
Based on the stats they are on par- Frisco may edge CH by a little but not by much as far as education.
At this point its ALL P.R.
You are great when you are exemplary at all levels not just elementary. Speaking as a Frisco tax payer I want exemplary.
But to be fair please stop using the data to create this idea that the southern burbs specifically CH education is below Frisco.
its easy to have more E and R schools when you have triple the population and triple the schools. Thats the way the math will work.
Respectfully.
well put rosscountry. Dallas isd has almost 100 recognized and exemplary campuses. are you suggesting far north dallas, that it is a better school district than say Keller or grapvine-colleyville e.t.c
data can be interpreted any way to fit preconceived notions/perceptions. I really hope over time we can change this
Last edited by southern living; 06-29-2008 at 08:31 AM..
Reason: I did not make it clear that the post was directed to far north dallas
again, i said that cedar hill schools are just as good as most nothern burb isds that i mentioned. the data supports my claim. the ISDs are all rate acceptable because their perfomance is similar i.e there is no statistical significance and therefore no difference. You post the following comment:
"More interesting to me though is what my friends who live south tell me about the schools and it's not good and it's rare for parents to complain about their own children's schools. But they live south for other reasons - cheaper, more space, more land, family lives in the area, or they specifically do not want to live in the northern parts"
Again, your friends comments are more than likely based on perception (which i am trying to change). there are just as many people who will tell you that they love the schools over here. My daughters school is rated "recognized" for all the almost 10 years that i lived here.
You will also agree if you look at the posts on this board that most believe that mansfield and midlothian schools are better than cedar/desot/duncan schools. They advise people that they are better off moving to these cities. the data just does NOT support this.
You and your cohort of highly rated posters offer great advise to people here. I hope you all will join me in dispeling this myth/misconception
Your data supports your claim because you've picked the data. Here is some data for the other end of the argument:
Cedar Hill (I'm using this as an example for all these examples):
It does not have an IB program. Many of the northern suburbs do (Garland, Allen, Plano, Carrollton all do).
There are many metrics besides TAKS where Cedar Hill falls short when compared to the state average. You can see them here:Cedar Hill IB Program - Google Search
Also, from googling, I get the impression that Cedar Hill does not offer as many AP classes as Plano does. I can't seem to find a site that gives me a exact breakdown, so I can't verify that.
Finally, look at this site (2007 National Merit Scholarship winners | WFAA.com | Local News: TV (http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/tv/stories/DN-nationalmerit1_27met.ART.West.Edition1.4261bde.htm l - broken link)). This lists the number of National Merit Scholars for each school. Cedar Hill has one, who is home schooled. Plano has about 8 from each school, Frisco has 1, McKinney has 2.
Even if you expand the list to semifinalists (which this is, but from a different year: 2008 NATIONAL MERIT SCHOLARSHIP SEMIFINALISTS | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | News: Education (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/education/stories/DN-nationalmeritsemifinalists_3.ART.West.Edition1.426 093e.html - broken link)) Cedar Hill does not have a single entry, while the northern suburbs have more.
Your data supports your claim because you've picked the data. Here is some data for the other end of the argument:
Cedar Hill (I'm using this as an example for all these examples):
It does not have an IB program. Many of the northern suburbs do (Garland, Allen, Plano, Carrollton all do).
There are many metrics besides TAKS where Cedar Hill falls short when compared to the state average. You can see them here:Cedar Hill IB Program - Google Search
Also, from googling, I get the impression that Cedar Hill does not offer as many AP classes as Plano does. I can't seem to find a site that gives me a exact breakdown, so I can't verify that.
Finally, look at this site (2007 National Merit Scholarship winners | WFAA.com | Local News: TV (http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/tv/stories/DN-nationalmerit1_27met.ART.West.Edition1.4261bde.htm l - broken link)). This lists the number of National Merit Scholars for each school. Cedar Hill has one, who is home schooled. Plano has about 8 from each school, Frisco has 1, McKinney has 2.
Even if you expand the list to semifinalists (which this is, but from a different year: 2008 NATIONAL MERIT SCHOLARSHIP SEMIFINALISTS | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | News: Education (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/education/stories/DN-nationalmeritsemifinalists_3.ART.West.Edition1.426 093e.html - broken link)) Cedar Hill does not have a single entry, while the northern suburbs have more.
1st of all lets not beat our chest for having a 1-8 merit scholarships. Great accomplishment but lets not get crazy.
I come from a school where 20-25 merit scholarships is the norm and we never spoke the way people on this post speak about other towns.
I notice the people not pounding there chest are the ones with the highest honors HP ISD, Southlake ISD, TAG
These schools have exemplary H.S. (the level before college) while many of the other "chest beaters" have academically acceptable Highschools and try to speak as if they are better than others with similar marks. Interesting :0
Again based on the info you just provided it doesn't show a major difference between Frisco and Cedar hill for education. I love how you brought in statistics from Plano, Richardson etc but were stating that people try hard to separate the north and the southern burbs based on biased interpretation of data.
No one of the previously mentioned school districts are on fire so lets stop living in the fantasy world and continue to get better.
I will admit I moved to Frisco because of what I heard about the fantastic school district but after looking at the individual grade level performance #'s I am a little disappointed. Maybe oneday it will be a rockstar district that has humble, realistic people that appreciate the fact that we can't talk smack until you are #1.
again to boast about 1,2,8 merit scholarships - Wow.
Your data supports your claim because you've picked the data. Here is some data for the other end of the argument:
Cedar Hill (I'm using this as an example for all these examples):
It does not have an IB program. Many of the northern suburbs do (Garland, Allen, Plano, Carrollton all do).
There are many metrics besides TAKS where Cedar Hill falls short when compared to the state average. You can see them here:Cedar Hill IB Program - Google Search
Also, from googling, I get the impression that Cedar Hill does not offer as many AP classes as Plano does. I can't seem to find a site that gives me a exact breakdown, so I can't verify that.
Finally, look at this site (2007 National Merit Scholarship winners | WFAA.com | Local News: TV (http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/tv/stories/DN-nationalmerit1_27met.ART.West.Edition1.4261bde.htm l - broken link)). This lists the number of National Merit Scholars for each school. Cedar Hill has one, who is home schooled. Plano has about 8 from each school, Frisco has 1, McKinney has 2.
Even if you expand the list to semifinalists (which this is, but from a different year: 2008 NATIONAL MERIT SCHOLARSHIP SEMIFINALISTS | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | News: Education (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/education/stories/DN-nationalmeritsemifinalists_3.ART.West.Edition1.426 093e.html - broken link)) Cedar Hill does not have a single entry, while the northern suburbs have more.
Thank you for supporting your claims based on facts, though old facts. I could not find anything recent myself though. Also keep in mind that in 2003/2004 plano and frisco were rated "recognized" which is not currently the case
Cedar hill as you mentioned has an sat score (that is 5 yrs old by the way) of 962, duncanville has an sat score of 1001. Compare to Keller at 1017 or carrolton-farmers branch at 1045. Again, they are different NUMERICALLY, but NOT different statistically.
the scores are even closer on ACT scores. cedar hill has 20.4 compared to carrolton farmers branch at 20.9 and keller at 20.2.
there is a positive correlation between wealth and SAT scores. SAT scores are higher in the north coz the north is more wealthy. The latest research also shows that SAT scores are not reliable predictions for success in college. see here Colleges Re-evaluate SAT | The Cornell Daily Sun and therefore is not appropriate for comparing districts. this is better done using TEA data which is actually designed to rate the districts. the TEA data is also more current (2007).
again, i argue that the scores are not statistically significant, are higher in the north because affluent famillies are more likely to move to the north, and they are more likely to move to the north because of the wrong negative perception of southern dallas county cities.
I have visited this forum on numerous occasions but never posted. As somebody already mentioned, some burbs here are underrepresented and therefore some erronous information about them have been posted. The above cities have low crime, cedar hill is booming with new business, and according to money magazine, is comparable to much loved northern cities such as rockwall and richardson (in terms of median income),so whats up?
as mentioned, cedar hill has become a grrreat shopping destination, If you are into active familly activities such as biking, hiking and boating then there is no better city than cedar hill which is minutes from joe pool lake state park. It is the most naturaly beautiful part of N. Texas and less than 30 minutes from downtown
so, whats wrong with this area?
To start, I have lived in the southern suburbs for most of my life – Lancaster (1988-1990), DeSoto (1990-2006), and Lancaster (2006-present). The first time I read some of the posts about these communities on city-data, I couldn't believe what was being said about them. That's the main reason why I created an account on this site, to counter some of the misinformation about these communities that has been treated as fact. I saw that a lot of the comments were coming from people who had never lived in or had poor knowledge of the area.
Exciting and positive things are going on across the area. As already mentioned, Cedar Hill has become a regional shopping/retail hub and continues to grow. DeSoto is currently transforming its town center into a mixed-use development. Duncanville has plans to revitalize its Main Street area. Lancaster has attracted a lot of commercial development as part of the coming Dallas Logisitics Hub project.
The southern suburbs are among the fastest growing areas in Dallas County. The recently released North Central Texas Council of Government's 2008 population estimates confirmed this trend:
Based on growth rates in the last eight years, Glenn Heights is the second fastest growing city in Dallas County behind Sachse (85.11%). Sunnyvale is third at 59.67% with Cedar Hill and Lancaster finishing fourth and fifth with growth rates of 39.91% and 38.26%, respectively.
People often mention that schools aren't as good as in the northern suburbs. There is a local tendency to base a school or an entire school district's reputation on its standardized test scores and ratings only without looking at other factors such as programs offered, teacher experience, graduation rates, etc. Another sad reality is that area school districts with minority-majority populations and higher percentages of lower-income students are commonly (but not always) perceived to be sub-par or poor-performing regardless of how true or false that may be. I attended DeSoto schools from 1991-2003 and received a quality education. For most of my secondary years, the district was "Recognized" and the schools I attended were either rated "Recognized" or "Exemplary". Even then we were perceived as "not as good" as some of the other area school districts despite our performance.
I know that the southern suburbs may not suit everyone's needs, just as the northern suburbs or inner-city Dallas don't. To the thousands of people who have chosen to relocate here recently as well as longtime residents like myself, however, it does.
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