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I could definitely see a demand for Jungle Jim's somewhere near the base (like Skyway Plaza off Kauffman in Fairborn).
The Commissary on base usually has some foreign foods and you can request items, but I agree, a Jungle Jim's branch would appeal to military families.
That area has been dying for quite some time. Years ago when I was a child and lived on WPAFB, my parents would take me to this candy store called the Yum Yum Tree in Skyway; I really wish it was still there. There used to be an Aldi's in the plaza years ago as well. Burger King and Dairy Queen couldn't even stay open, but Cadillac Jacks and McDonald's have hung on.
I've noticed at JJ's main store, prices for typical items you can find at any grocer are higher than what they are at Kroger or Super Walmart. The adjacent neighborhood is a lower income one, so they couldn't count on having patronage from the locals who are just running down to the corner market for bread and milk. My parents live just up the road in a neighborhood full of retirees who just go to the base for basics (cheaper prices, no tax) and Kroger or Meijer for anything special that they can't get at the Commissary.
On the plus side, now that Broad is closed to civilians, Kauffman gets a lot more traffic, and the bike path's right across the street too. Hopefully the area hasn't slipped so much that it can't be recovered. Fairborn's court looks absolutely ridiculous in the plaza, and I'd love to see something else nice there to revive it.
I think a better location would be somewhere closer to 675. This would make it more accessible to people all over the valley, especially the military families that choose not to live in Fairborn. After the base tore down "the sticks" housing area, leaving just "the bricks", there's been more and more families who live in civilian housing and choose to live in more desirable locations like Yellow Springs and Beavercreek. Maybe a Jungle Jim's could do well where the old Fulmer's was on Broad or in the vacant space in the Kmart shopping center on Dayton Yellow Springs (which might have been a Fulmer's too, at some point IIRC).
On another note, as far as national chains go, I really like Safeway and could see them being a good competitor to Kroger.
Miejers is still pretty good for produce...I cook a lot with dill, basil, parsley, and their bulk section has these at a pretty good price. But they have pretty good quality produce & fruit across the board....and that is were Wal-Mart is lacking big-time. But W-M is cheap for canned and frozen stuff (tho I get some good deals at T-Js...and at DLM!)(frozen food manager at DLM rides the bus with me and tips me off to specials they have...)
For "ethnic" stuff (as in Asian..Indian subcontinent, arabia, and "east Asia"), the Dayton area has a pretty good set of smaller stores. I find myself using the two Indian markets near me a lot... There are also Asian places that I go to sometimes (one near the intersection of the bikeway and 3rd Street comes to mind)....and the Mexicans have things too...like Mihuacan Marekt on N Troy.
I think the base might have brought the Asians here, at first (GIs..i guess in our case "airmen"... marrying Koreans and Japanese girls?), and the Indians are here due to the IT industry....
For "ethnic" stuff (as in Asian..Indian subcontinent, arabia, and "east Asia"), the Dayton area has a pretty good set of smaller stores. I find myself using the two Indian markets near me a lot... There are also Asian places that I go to sometimes (one near the intersection of the bikeway and 3rd Street comes to mind)....and the Mexicans have things too...like Mihuacan Marekt on N Troy.
I think the base might have brought the Asians here, at first (GIs..i guess in our case "airmen"... marrying Koreans and Japanese girls?), and the Indians are here due to the IT industry....
That is true. Those places amaze me... they seem like the true model of efficiency. Old retail location re-use, micro-stores... very low overhead! But they still have to compete with the big grocers, despite having a loyal following from whatever ethnic group they serve.
It's probably a tough business, but I can see how having the right cheap-rent location, used fixtures, customer service, and cleanliness, could come together to make it a very successful business. I go to the Mexican Market on North Troy every once in a while, and I am always impressed by their selection and quality.
Makes me wonder if something like that would fit in better downtown as a "grocery" than some high-end specialty grocer. If, say, an African market to target the Rwandan population or a Turkish/middle eastern market opened up in a more prime location downtown and had a wider selection, I could see it "filling the niche" more mentally than the Stop and Save by the Arcade does...
The Commissary on base usually has some foreign foods and you can request items, but I agree, a Jungle Jim's branch would appeal to military families.
That area has been dying for quite some time. Years ago when I was a child and lived on WPAFB, my parents would take me to this candy store called the Yum Yum Tree in Skyway; I really wish it was still there. There used to be an Aldi's in the plaza years ago as well. Burger King and Dairy Queen couldn't even stay open, but Cadillac Jacks and McDonald's have hung on.
I've noticed at JJ's main store, prices for typical items you can find at any grocer are higher than what they are at Kroger or Super Walmart. The adjacent neighborhood is a lower income one, so they couldn't count on having patronage from the locals who are just running down to the corner market for bread and milk. My parents live just up the road in a neighborhood full of retirees who just go to the base for basics (cheaper prices, no tax) and Kroger or Meijer for anything special that they can't get at the Commissary.
On the plus side, now that Broad is closed to civilians, Kauffman gets a lot more traffic, and the bike path's right across the street too. Hopefully the area hasn't slipped so much that it can't be recovered. Fairborn's court looks absolutely ridiculous in the plaza, and I'd love to see something else nice there to revive it.
I think a better location would be somewhere closer to 675. This would make it more accessible to people all over the valley, especially the military families that choose not to live in Fairborn. After the base tore down "the sticks" housing area, leaving just "the bricks", there's been more and more families who live in civilian housing and choose to live in more desirable locations like Yellow Springs and Beavercreek. Maybe a Jungle Jim's could do well where the old Fulmer's was on Broad or in the vacant space in the Kmart shopping center on Dayton Yellow Springs (which might have been a Fulmer's too, at some point IIRC).
On another note, as far as national chains go, I really like Safeway and could see them being a good competitor to Kroger.
Very true. The only reason I suggested Skyway (like it will ever happen, but we can always dream, right?) is:
1. Dirt cheap real estate. Before Fairfield Commons existed, I heard the center did good business with Elder-Beerman as a primary anchor. Then the mall poached it, nothing filled the spot because the retail space was not viable with the mall down the street, and it was left in its current state. So the spot should be cheap.
2. OH 444 re-route. With enclosing the Base's perimeter and re-routing traffic onto Kauffman, traffic right by Skyway has now skyrocketed.
3. Building size - The two currently existing Jungle Jim's locations are both well over 250,000 sq.ft. To put it in perspective, a large K-mart is around 90,000-100,000 sq.ft., and an average Super Wal-Mart or Meijer is around 210,000 sq.ft. Figuring Skyway has two primary adjacent anchor spaces (I assume both add up to somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000 sq. ft) and some large auxiliary spaces that can be merged in, the building seems to be an appropriate size. This way a new build would not be required (which would be for anything along I-675).
But getting a Jungle Jim's around Dayton EVER is a major stretch. Besides market cannibalization, "Jungle" Jim happens to be good friends with the owners of Dorothy Lane Market. So I doubt they would ever want to compete (and that is also probably a main reason why West Chester/Mason does not have a DLM).
As a side note, the vacant space at the Kmart in Fairborn (is that Kmart still there on D-YS?) used to be a Kroger. The Kroger before the tear-down and rebuilt in Beavercreek used to look like that one back in the mid 1990's. I remember going there in preschool to see the bakery and what not. I think it might have been a field trip.
Long story short, they renovated the Beavercreek Kroger to what a typical Ohio late 90's Kroger would look like, including the adjoining strip center (which also had a Revco and Beavercreek Cinema!). Of course, they tore down the Kroger I grew up with about a year and an half ago and built Super Kroger, aka Kroger Marketplace. In the process, they demoed much of that strip center, which had some big vacancies at that point.
As for the Fairborn Kroger, that closed in 2000 when they opened the newer one at I-675 and D-YS.
Yeah, the Kmart is still open. I knew there used to be a grocery store next to it, I didn't know it was Kroger though.
The Kroger Marketplace in Beavercreek is pretty nice. They had Fry's Marketplace in Phoenix, which of course was the same thing. They even had a Fry's Signature, which had a really upscale/fancy feel to it. I think we'll see grocers upgrade their stores to have that same look. All of the newly built grocery stores I have shopped at in the past few years like Safeway, Fresh and Easy, King Soopers, Whole Foods, Walmart Neighborhood Market, Sprouts, Albertsons, and Bashas had that upscale look with specialty sections.
OHKID, good thinking on the retail space size at Skyway. I didn't think of that. I bet you're right about Dayton's chances of even getting a Jungle Jim's since we have DLM. Nice to dream though, especially about it being up here in the northern suburbs.
I cannot believe (read: CAN believe) another grocery store is being offered to an area that has Earth Fare, DLM (and another just down 48), and close proximity to two Meijers and Krogers and a Trader Joe's while there isn't a proper grocery anywhere in Dayton. It's outrageous that folks have to drive or take the bus to any of the real supermarkets (please note: I am NOT including the Kroger on Wayne as a "real supermarket"), all of which are located in the suburbs. The last thing Centerville needs is another grocery store, let alone another of this "high end" type!
A proper grocery is precisely one of the things downtown requires in order to make it more livable (i.e., a "real" city). There are certainly enough people living here, contrary to what people sometimes spout without looking at statistics, to support a supermarket. Personally,I feel a smaller/more reasonably priced one like Trader Joe's would be a better solution (the pathetic, "local" Krogers are more of a supplement to other groceries). This would actually help downtown Dayton, unlike the ridiculous half planning that is currently in effect (keep building lofts and apartment buildings, but offer the residents nowhere to shop for food = a self-defeating "plan"). It is critical to a true revitalization effort. This is a frustrating read...
Nevertheless, I suppose that's Capitalism for you, and is as predictable as anything else. Whole Foods wants high revenue, and they know where they need to be located in order to get it.
I cannot believe (read: CAN believe) another grocery store is being offered to an area that has Earth Fare, DLM (and another just down 48), and close proximity to two Meijers and Krogers and a Trader Joe's while there isn't a proper grocery anywhere in Dayton. It's outrageous that folks have to drive or take the bus to any of the real supermarkets (please note: I am NOT including the Kroger on Wayne as a "real supermarket"), all of which are located in the suburbs. The last thing Centerville needs is another grocery store, let alone another of this "high end" type!
A proper grocery is precisely one of the things downtown requires in order to make it more livable (i.e., a "real" city). There are certainly enough people living here, contrary to what people sometimes spout without looking at statistics, to support a supermarket. Personally,I feel a smaller/more reasonably priced one like Trader Joe's would be a better solution (the pathetic, "local" Krogers are more of a supplement to other groceries). This would actually help downtown Dayton, unlike the ridiculous half planning that is currently in effect (keep building lofts and apartment buildings, but offer the residents nowhere to shop for food = a self-defeating "plan"). It is critical to a true revitalization effort. This is a frustrating read...
Nevertheless, I suppose that's Capitalism for you, and is as predictable as anything else. Whole Foods wants high revenue, and they know where they need to be located in order to get it.
When I lived in Dayton, we used to call the Kroger on Wayne Ave Freddy Kroger. It has quite an eclectic clientèle. But you are right, it's a sorry excuse for a real grocery store. I think downtown could support a smaller grocery store, but I am not sure you will see one there any time soon. I think in general, the lack of a good grocery option is a reflection of the demographic in Dayton. That's why you see so many dollar stores. What site selection expert in his right mind would put a more up-scale, full service grocery store on east third?
^Agreed. Honestly I think a Mexican or other ethnic market would do well downtown and fill the niche for now. When bigger chains see the success a smaller grocer is achieving, then I can see them coming downtown. Either that or the small ethnic grocer would get smart and start stocking some higher-end products haha.
Regardless, we do have the Stop-N-Save, which is better than nothing at all I guess. It would be nice if Constantino's did pull through with their plan, but who knows if it will ever happen? So much is proposed, so little actually happens. Fortunately, that means the stupid stuff like building a giant-a$$ truck stop on Edwin C. Moses or demo'ing 12 perfectly good office buildings downtown to reduce a vacancy statistic doesn't happen either, so it's all for the better I guess....
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