Feedback from Transplants that moved to Denver (Aguilar: subsidized, taxi)

[history nerd]

Originally Posted by DougStark

I don't mean to sound angry, but MOST people don't want to use mass transit. They want to drive cars.

*Citation Needed*

Mass transit is great, it allows greater mobility the HUGE segment of the population who cannot afford cars... This mobility allows them to find jobs and get off the dole. Public transit is a fiscally conservative policy

[davidv]

Originally Posted by DougStark

Wait, you want highway tolls that reflect the true cost of highway maint? How about light rail fares that reflect the incredible expense these light rail trains cost? No one ever talks about that.

BTW, vehicles already pay taxes on road maint/construction when they fill their tanks. It's called a gas tax. Fortunately we don't have toll roads in and around Phoenix.

I don't mean to sound angry, but MOST people don't want to use mass transit. They want to drive cars.

So the gas tax covers all road maintenance and construction? You seem to think that because drivers pay a gasoline tax they should get to drive on the roads for free. We have to kick in additional tax/fee money to build and maintain roads.

We also have an RTD sales tax for mass transit. Because it doesn't cover all the costs for mass transit, the riders have to make up the difference at the fare box.

Why does one form get its additional costs covered while the other does not?

[MN_Ski]

I honestly wish they would Toll the hell out of I70. $12-15 each way on all of the lanes to the resorts on Sat and Sun mornings? Sure!

It would force people to car pool and maybe encourage some new shuttle bus options.

[Timmyy]

Originally Posted by MN_Ski

I honestly wish they would Toll the hell out of I70. $12-15 each way on all of the lanes to the resorts on Sat and Sun mornings? Sure!

It would force people to car pool and maybe encourage some new shuttle bus options.

I would have no problem with that with the exception of people that live up there that have to come down here for work or vice versa.

[MN_Ski]

Originally Posted by Timmyy

I would have no problem with that with the exception of people that live up there that have to come down here for work or vice versa.

Well the idea would be that the toll would only impact ski traffic. Like it would only be for all lanes during 7am-10am, and 3pm-6pm Sat and Sun. During all of the other days/hour, it would remain as just the express lane. It could be even further broken down to Westbound in the mornings, and Eastbound in the evenings.

[history nerd]

Originally Posted by Timmyy

I would have no problem with that with the exception of people that live up there that have to come down here for work or vice versa.

Assuming it uses the same Express Toll system as E-470 you could just have special transponders for residents with a free or reduced rate paid for by the state or municipality.

[Good Red Road]

Originally Posted by MN_Ski

Well the idea would be that the toll would only impact ski traffic. Like it would only be for all lanes during 7am-10am, and 3pm-6pm Sat and Sun. During all of the other days/hour, it would remain as just the express lane. It could be even further broken down to Westbound in the mornings, and Eastbound in the evenings.

If the objective is to toll ski traffic, then the most efficient method would probably be to add a transportation fee on to the cost of lift tickets.

[robertgoodman]

Originally Posted by Good Red Road

If the objective is to toll ski traffic, then the most efficient method would probably be to add a transportation fee on to the cost of lift tickets.

The problem is the traffic is actually worse on weekends in the summer, and in the winter people also use I70 for other recreational purposes (IE snowshoeing, snowmobiling, nordic skiing, etc). So you are still hiding costs from a lot of people. You also end up charging tourists or locals who choose to stay up there for a long weekend the same transportation fee whether they used I70 that day or not.

IMO the best solution is variable priced tolling going up and down with congestion (or projected congestion for predictability), and the tolling revenue going to maintenance on the road as well as adding person capacity through some sort of shuttle system that leases out RTD's excess bus capacity that is sitting on the sidelines on the weekends.

Unfortunately, toll roads on existing interstate lanes that were not tollways prior to the interstate system is next to impossible without an act of congress -even though new HOT lanes are not-. CDOT may be able to toll the eisenhower/johnson tunnels more easily though.

[Good Red Road]

Originally Posted by robertgoodman

toll roads on existing interstate lanes that were not tollways prior to the interstate system are next to impossible without an act of congress -even though new HOT lanes are not-. CDOT may be able to toll the eisenhower/johnson tunnels more easily though.

This is a good point, and in my view it should take an act of congress. These are the roads are grandparents built with a social contract that provided for the funds to build and maintain them, and now it seems many want to punish the very people that use them.

And a standby cue for "History Essay of Americas' Subsidized Suburban Freeway System" by random CD poster .......and......go cue!

[robertgoodman]

Originally Posted by Good Red Road

This is a good point, and in my view it should take an act of congress. These are the roads are grandparents built with a social contract that provided for the funds to build and maintain them, and now it seems many want to punish the very people that use them.

And a standby cue for "History Essay of Americas' Subsidized Suburban Freeway System" by random CD poster .......and......go cue!

Our grandparents didn't provide the funds or adequate funding mechanism to expand the interstate to meet the demand we keep inducing, and to adequately maintain the interstate system.

So that funding part of the contract is broken, the question is what's the best thing to do about it going forward. CDOT so far has opted for HOT lanes. The republicans in the legislature are currently trying to raid the general fund after unsuccessfully trying to force CDOT to pay for expansion by borrowing from future money needed for maintenance. I am not sure about you but raiding money that would otherwise go to schools, public safety, etc to further subsidize roads seems like a bigger breach of a social contract to me.