09-06-2008, 08:40 PM
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Reputation: 20
Spincycle - Perhaps 6% is customary. My numbers are for example, and I'm not exactly sure what it is around here. I think you are correct, though.
2bindenver - I won't go through that entire list, but many of those examples are clearly just in there to make the list longer. For instance, why do I need an agent doing walk-through with me? Unless I'm a complete idiot, it should be fairly easy to look around the property and establish that it is or is not in the same condition as when I made the offer. In general, I'd say the answer to all of your questions on that list is, "Me". If I'm acting as my own agent, I can handle taking care of all that.
As an agent, you clearly have some incentive to make real estate transactions appear to be much more complicated than they really are. I agree that the vast majority of people are pretty dumb, and probably shouldn't be going into a transaction without an agent. However, if you're fairly intelligent and have researched the subject thoroughly (as the OP clearly has), acting as your own agent is an easy way to save a substantial amount of money.
Think about it this way: Getting a real estate license doesn't require any formal education (ie - a degree from a college or university). There are high school drop-outs working as real estate agents in this country. If you're an educated individual, do you really think that bit of how-to-be-a-real-estate-agent training your agent received makes them substantially more adept at the process than you?
09-06-2008, 09:03 PM
Location: Just south of Denver since 1989
11,828 posts, read
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Reputation: 8981
I actually do have a degree and more than:
48 Hours in Real Estate Law
and Practice
48 Hours in Colorado Contracts and Regulations
8 Hours in Trust Accounts and
Record Keeping
8 Hours in Current Legal Issues
24 Hours in Real Estate Closings
32 Hours in Practical Applications
• Pass entire broker exam (state & fed)
I have been licensed for 19 years now, passed the salesman's test in 1989 and the brokers test in 1994.
I didn't make any "fluff" statements. I believe those to be the minimum needed/necessary - to do for a buyers agent.
ps you are not going to get into any of my listings without a broker in tow. If my sellers thought you were there by yourself, they'd be very angry and I'd loose my license.
09-06-2008, 09:10 PM
Location: Clarksville, TN
204 posts, read
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Reputation: 82
I cannot comment as to the Colorado specifics. The commission is flexible here in Tennessee - no set commission and I have seen 7% many times.
As for your question - 'Is a buyers agent necessary?' I would say absolutely! If the home is listed by an agent - that agent has a fudiciary responsibility to the seller - in other words he or she is working for the seller. While many states (Tennessee included) allow for the agent to serve as a 'dual' agent for both the buyer and seller, it is not seen in a good light.
An agent working for you is going to take care of YOUR best interests. Going to facilitate the inspection process, the appraisal process, the paperwork, etc. To say you do not pay for the buyers agent representation is true to a point - it is a split of the commission and it is paid by the seller to the listing agent's brokerage and then split.
Regardless of that - the point I would like to drive home is that while you may have done much of the research, and should be applauded - find a good agent who has the experience, knows the area, and will work for YOU and your family to ensure that your experience is a pleasant and smooth one.
I wish you the best.
09-07-2008, 09:39 AM
Location: Just south of Denver since 1989
11,828 posts, read
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Reputation: 8981
this is also being discussed on the real estate forum
09-07-2008, 09:55 AM
220 posts, read
748,505 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2bindenver
who writes this offer of yours?
who orders/reviews the O&E report
who reviews your GFE?
who sits at the property during the inspection?
who discusses your options after the inspection?
who discusses appraisal issues with you?
who helps you when your financing gets hung up?
who does your walkthrough with you?
who helps you at the closing table if issues come?
I assume you provide this service for every property regardless of listing price? How can you justify $60,000 in total commissions on a $1,000,000 house but only charge $6,000 in total commissions on a $100,000 house for basically the same services. Certainly selling or listing a $1,000,000 home is not 10 times the work! Why is there not a fixed dollar amount to sell or buy a property regardless of the price?. JMHO
09-07-2008, 12:47 PM
Location: Aurora, CO
1 posts, read
2,499 times
Reputation: 14
Pay now or later?
As a local home inspector I hear this a lot, "Why would I pay you for something I can do myself..." Sure people can crawl up in their attic or pop the cover off their main electrical panel - what they cannot do is consistent defect recognition, improper installation techniques, gross safety/code violations, anticipated life expectancies, and the list goes on. It isn't about the price of the paint and the canvas, rather the experience, training, the ability to keep things in context, and attention to detail.
Why am I bringing this up in this particular thread? To expect to perform a thorough inspection by yourself on a large financial investment is neither cost effective or a wise use of your time (and all to save $300 or $400 is crazy). I see real estate agents getting static all the time for a service they provide. All it takes is trying to do things by yourself once, get burned, and you learn the hard way.
I can only imagine the contractual or legal issues arising out of the transfer of a $400,000 home - contracts IMHO are a minefield: cut corners and you might get bit, leave something out and the liability rests squarely on your shoulders! Try to do an inspection on your own and the odds are you will miss something significant that could have been rectified by the seller out of their own pocket. If you don't see the value, time hopefully will open your eyes.
09-07-2008, 12:58 PM
Location: Just south of Denver since 1989
11,828 posts, read
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Reputation: 8981
It takes a special broker to sell a million dollar house - these people buying and selling have people. It's networking and who you know, it's trust - it takes a long time to get anything done. There is a great deal of liability. Everyone is married to an attorney or golfs with one.
I've never done one. I focus on helping the average Joe get the best deal that is possible.
09-07-2008, 01:14 PM
14 posts, read
100,617 times
Reputation: 20
Someone commented that you need an agent to "facilitate the inspection process"..."the appraisal process", etc. Again, I think that's making the process sound much more complicated than it really is. You want an inspection? Call the seller, arrange a time, then call an inspector, and hire him. Done. Same for appraisal. This is not rocket science.
An inspector also commented on how people try to cut corners by doing inspections themselves. Let me ask you this, though - what kind of training does it take to be a home inspector? This is community college-level education, AT BEST. If you're a decent handyman, or happen to be educated in a technical field like engineering or architecture or something, I'm sure you possess at least as much ability to perform a home inspection. The overwhelming majority of defects are not difficult to notice, and those which are difficult to notice are probably hidden behind walls or not something any inspector would be able to see.
While I don't doubt that real estate agents are useful in many situations, I just want to point out that we shouldn't depend on them heavily as through they were a professional (like a doctor or a lawyer). Real-estate-agent training is not comperable to formal higher education. While there are some agents with degrees, many do not have anything beyond industry-specific training. Even professions which we don't usually associate with tremendously high levels of education (such as teachers or electricians or plumbers or nurses) are better educated than real estate agents. So I guess my point is: You should always watch out for yourself, and not rely on anyone (even a real estate agent) to take care of you. And if you're going to do that, why bother with a buyer's agent at all?
09-07-2008, 01:23 PM
Location: Spring, Texas
410 posts, read
1,682,510 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonAriba
I assume you provide this service for every property regardless of listing price? How can you justify $60,000 in total commissions on a $1,000,000 house but only charge $6,000 in total commissions on a $100,000 house for basically the same services. Certainly selling or listing a $1,000,000 home is not 10 times the work! Why is there not a fixed dollar amount to sell or buy a property regardless of the price?. JMHO
ok... let's talk cars, as most of us have sold a few in our day. If I had a Bentley I wanted to sell...I would expect to spend considerably more on the marketing/advertising of it ....than I would on a Hundai. Running that ad on Craigs list wouldn't hit my target market.
You are reaching out to a select pool.... it's not just about the amount of work/services involved ... but also, the cost of the marketing. Running that high gloss, color ad in trade magazines carries a great cost than being solely entered into MLS. When listing agents have to accompany all buyer agents vs the buyers agent showing unaccompanied. The aerial shots vs traditional ground shots. Not to sound too "snotty" but, the elite buyers & seller have a different standard of expectation and are willing to pay for it.
The short of it ... Realtors/Agents/Brokers have got to do better than just break even... in order to stay in business. We're upside down on every listing or buyers agency we enter into until it closes....sometime it never does
. There is always the element of risk.... I guess that's why commission structures are the way they are....Sunny
09-07-2008, 01:35 PM
619 posts, read
2,200,117 times
Reputation: 346
Wow, you all are a free wheeling bunch here in CO!
First, no attorneys, now, no representation at all...and some suggesting do-it-yourself inspections as well.
As for attorneys, suit thy self.
As for buyer's agent, since it is probably unlikely that you are going to get a seller to hand over the 2.8% a buyer's agent would have gotten to you, why on earth would you chose to take on all the extra work of organizing all the steps to home ownership, when you can have someone do all the legwork for you? Hey, if it floats your boat, go for it. Just seems like an odd choice to me - again, since it is unlikely to have any financial benefit for you. Of course, look out for yourself, but an extra set of educated eyes never hurts.
As for inspections, it's true that many inspectors aren't worth their weight in salt...BUT that is not the same thing as not needing an inspector at all. What you need to do is find an expert inspector who has a strong background in building. Those inspectors are worth their weight in gold...and I am truly tickled that people would be willing to take this on themselves. In our most recent transaction, the inspector id'd several major concerns that would be very difficult for the untrained eye to detect.
I think it's a bit reckless to encourage "average joes" to go without a professional inspection.
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
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Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)